[Owasp-website] Forums (yes, I'm bringing this up)

Mark Bristow mark.bristow at owasp.org
Mon Jul 25 22:07:18 EDT 2011


Any updates from the Jive team?

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Tom Brennan <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:

> Ok will set a call the week of 11th with the Jive folks and send out invite
>
>
> Semper Fi,
>
> Tom Brennan
> Tel: 973-202-0122
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 30, 2011, at 3:05 PM, "Laurence Casey" <larry.casey at owasp.org>
> wrote:
>
> I have just applied for the test drive.****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owasp-website-bounces at lists.owasp.org [mailto:
> owasp-website-bounces at lists.owasp.org] *On Behalf Of *Tom Brennan
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:35 PM
> *To:* Mark Bristow
> *Cc:* Rory McCune; <owasp-website at lists.owasp.org>
> owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Owasp-website] Forums (yes, I'm bringing this up)****
>
> ** **
>
> Jive update was:****
>
> ** **
>
> <http://www.jivesoftware.com/products/try-jive>
> http://www.jivesoftware.com/products/try-jive****
>
> ** **
>
> Then let's talk about next steps.
>
> Semper Fi,****
>
> ** **
>
> Tom Brennan****
>
> Tel: 973-202-0122****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
> On Jun 30, 2011, at 2:26 PM, Mark Bristow < <mark.bristow at owasp.org>
> mark.bristow at owasp.org> wrote:****
>
> I think it's a good model as well.  Do we want to estabolish any additional
> criteria and/or look at any other platforms?****
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Jason Li <[email protected] <http://owasp.org>
> owasp.org> wrote:****
>
> First step - we need Matt to give Larry some credentials/VMs on Rackspace.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Second step - Tom was going to follow up with Jive to try and get us some
> discount pricing. Dave had also expressed a willingness to do so.****
>
> ** **
>
> Third step - setup an instance of Jive and a sample forum/mailing list to
> see what it can do and if it works the way we want it****
>
> ** **
>
> Fourth step - figure out a migration process:****
>
> ** **
>
> a) What to do about mailman archives? As a side note, I discovered
> yesterday that the mailman archives are not complete --- I noticed (and
> Larry confirmed) that a whole thread was completely missing from the
> archive. That probably isn't the only thread that has gone missing... Will
> want to try and recover/migrate existing archives? (personal preference is
> yes)****
>
> ** **
>
> b) Setup forums to match up existing mailing lists****
>
> ** **
>
> c) Run in "transparent mode" (made up term by me to indicate trial basis)
> for awhile to show that it's working****
>
> ** **
>
> d) Once we're confident it's working, announce full cut over****
>
> ** **
>
> Fifth Step - celebrate over drinks!****
>
> ** **
>
> Obviously there are lots of little details in between, but I think that's
> the general model.****
>
> ** **
>
> -Jason****
>
> ** **
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Mark Bristow < <mark.bristow at owasp.org>
> mark.bristow at owasp.org> wrote:****
>
> So what do we need to do to move a test platform forward?****
>
> ** **
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Laurence Casey < <larry.casey at owasp.org>
> larry.casey at owasp.org> wrote:****
>
> Agree, but like I said, not to many people.****
>
>  ****
>
> How many people decided to use Mailman in the beginning?  1****
>
> How many people decided to use Mediawiki? I think 3 or 4****
>
>  ****
>
> It’s been 5+ years like this and very successful. ****
>
>  ****
>
> In a room full of 30+ people talking about Forum’s vs. mailing lists, we
> could not come to an agreement. No movement on the project has been made
> since. ****
>
>  ****
>
> I don’t really want to get involved in debating which direction to go. More
> interested in getting things done. I’m not set on Jive, but it does
> everything everybody was asking for, what do we need to sell to everyone?
> ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Mark Bristow [mailto: <mark.bristow at owasp.org>
> mark.bristow at owasp.org]
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:28 AM
> *To:* Laurence Casey
> *Cc:* Rohit Sethi; Rory McCune; <owasp-website at lists.owasp.org>
> owasp-website at lists.owasp.org****
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Owasp-website] Forums (yes, I'm bringing this up)****
>
>  ****
>
> Gotta get the customer butyin****
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Laurence Casey < <larry.casey at owasp.org>
> larry.casey at owasp.org> wrote:****
>
> For me, Jive was a replacement for the mailing list and had other features
> that met the requirements of the coding projects. ****
>
>  ****
>
> I agree with Mark that this would be a test run. As for getting everybody
> and their mothers  involved, not so sure. The more people you have involved
> the more likely we will end up where we are now. A small group of people
> evaluating the products will probably work best. We provide the platform and
> the people will come no matter what we use.****
>
>  ****
>
> --Larry****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Rohit Sethi [mailto: <rklists at gmail.com>rklists at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:54 AM
> *To:* Mark Bristow
> *Cc:* Laurence Casey; Rory McCune; <owasp-website at lists.owasp.org>
> owasp-website at lists.owasp.org****
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Owasp-website] Forums (yes, I'm bringing this up)****
>
>  ****
>
> How about opening a project in Google code or GitHub and using their bug
> tracker?****
>
>  ****
>
> Also, I'd like to propose that we explicitly prioritize which audiences we
> are building the site for:****
>
> For example:****
>
> 1. Developers who want to learn about application security basics****
>
> 2. Developers who are looking for tools to build secure applications****
>
> 3. Developers / testers who are looking to test their applications for
> security****
>
> 4. Application security professionals looking to contribute****
>
> etc.****
>
>  ****
>
> When it comes to prioritizing what to work on first, we should always think
> about the order of priority in terms of target audience.****
>
>  ****
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Mark Bristow < <mark.bristow at owasp.org>
> mark.bristow at owasp.org> wrote:****
>
> I think it might be better to gather some more requirements, get a couple
> of options and test them before we go off selecting a platform.  It takes a
> little more time but it's my experience that this process gets better buy in
> and ensures all requirements are met (or at least documented).  As far as I
> know we havent' even documented all of the requirements/asks yet.****
>
>  ****
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Laurence Casey < <larry.casey at owasp.org>
> larry.casey at owasp.org> wrote:****
>
> I did speak with Jive about the entire product and it WILL do everything we
> have wanted. I myself am on several lists that use this product and its
> perfect. The problem is that I needed somebody like Tom to negotiate a deal
> with them. That is not my area of expertise and would most likely screw that
> up. ****
>
>  ****
>
> --Larry****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* <owasp-website-bounces at lists.owasp.org>
> owasp-website-bounces at lists.owasp.org [mailto:<owasp-website-bounces at lists.owasp.org>
> owasp-website-bounces at lists.owasp.org] *On Behalf Of *Tom Brennan
> *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2011 8:52 PM
> *To:* Mark Bristow; Rory McCune; Jason Li
> *Cc:* <owasp-website at lists.owasp.org>owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Owasp-website] Forums (yes, I'm bringing this up)****
>
>  ****
>
> "Expensive" is what i call my wife's shopping trips to the mall when i am
> traveling..   don't be discouraged by cost at this stage of this massive
> project, lets find the best solution possible today break it up via
> committee focus and consumer requirements -- that will likely change again
> in 2-5 years...  like any good project we gather our requirements and costs
> to determine if they are in fact operational costs that the business will
> accept as cost of business that happens to be a non-profit... so lets never
> confuse the NON-PROFIT with FREE as these two words are NOT associated in
> the real world and taboo to any commercial business that is having someone
> asking for anything free.
>
> The real value is in barter-in-trade just as we have different categories
> on our website:
> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Membership#Current_OWASP_Organization_Supporters_.26_Individual_Members>
> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Membership#Current_OWASP_Organization_Supporters_.26_Individual_Members(Salesforce and Aspect) this list will also include shortly include Akamai,
> Rackspace and others that understand the global value of working with our
> professional association however.****
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Mark Bristow < <mark.bristow at owasp.org>
> mark.bristow at owasp.org> wrote:****
>
> The forum integration and mail settings seem to do exactly what we want
> (you can receive threads and reply via email) it would just be about posting
> all the old stuff.****
>
>  ****
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Jason Li <[email protected] <http://owasp.org>
> owasp.org> wrote:****
>
> My understanding is that it's expensive... I spoke with Larry and he
> indicated that they do have special pricing for non-profit but that he has
> not had the time to pursue it.****
>
>  ****
>
> If that's something you want to take on, I think that would be a great
> thing to push forward! Hopefully we can convince them to host the service as
> well, but even if it's just providing the software for free or discounted
> rate and we host it, that's a huge plus!****
>
>  ****
>
> Otherwise, we'll have to do a trial or something and consider some kind of
> funding support model (advertisement placement in forums?).****
>
>  ****
>
> -Jason****
>
>  ****
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Rory McCune < <rory.mccune at owasp.org>
> rory.mccune at owasp.org> wrote:****
>
> Hi, ****
>
>  ****
>
> Yep I had a look as well, and it looked like a pretty neat solution.  The
> first question would likely be to get  an idea of cost, as (as far as I
> could see) that's not listed anywhere on the website.  Hopefully they'll
> have special pricing for non-profit organisations...****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Mark Bristow < <mark.bristow at owasp.org>
> mark.bristow at owasp.org> wrote:****
>
> I've only taken a cursory look at Jive, but it might work well.****
>
>  ****
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Jason Li <[email protected] <http://owasp.org>
> owasp.org> wrote:****
>
> I have a separate thread with Larry about setting up a VM to stage forums.
> The research he did a few months back suggests Jive may be a good compromise
> to merge mailing lists with forums.****
>
>  ****
>
> Will follow up with him when I get back to the States.****
>
>  ****
>
> -Jason****
>
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Rory McCune < <rory.mccune at owasp.org>
> rory.mccune at owasp.org> wrote:****
>
>  ****
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:20 PM, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman <<buanzo at buanzo.com.ar>
> buanzo at buanzo.com.ar> wrote:****
>
> On 06/15/2011 06:49 PM, Mark Bristow wrote:
> > I think it's time we finally got real about forums.  I can't believe that
> there isn't some software
> > out there that could take our Mailman database, convert it all over to
> forums by thread (as ugly as
> > it might be), make user acconts for everyone who has signed up, provide
> them temproary passwords and
> > do mail integration moving forward.
> >
> > There are a number of web designers/developers at OWASP I say we stand up
> a test area and just start
> > mucking around till it works, document it, test it, and transition.****
>
> We could probably get hypermail or something like that to read the mailman
> mbox archives. Those
> tools already split by thread. Then we just hook ourselves to, instead of
> create an html archive,
> inject to a mybb/phpbb/whateverwechoose forum database accordingly. Also,
> I'd just use a fake
> account for these imported messages, and just keep them as reference, and
> have NEW discussions be
> created by real forum accounts (probably linked to an @ <http://owasp.org>
> owasp.org account?).****
>
>  ****
>
> It'd be good to sort something out for forums.  The challenge I've seen
> from reading previous threads on this (IIRC) is that there's a desire for a
> solution which allows for people to have both forums style access and
> mailing list style access at the same time (roughly the way that Yahoo
> Groups works).  I think that if we could solve that problem, then as Arturo
> says, it would just be a question of sorting out a one-time import process,
> to populate the archives.****
>
>  ****
>
> Cheers****
>
>  ****
>
> Rory****
>
> _______________________________________________****
>
>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owasp-website mailing list
> <Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org>Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
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> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
>  <mark.bristow at owasp.org>mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - <http://is.gd/5MTvF>
> http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - <http://is.gd/5MTwu>http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - <https://www.appsecdc.org>https://www.appsecdc.org**
> **
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
> <mark.bristow at owasp.org>mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - <http://is.gd/5MTvF>
> http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - <http://is.gd/5MTwu>http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - <https://www.appsecdc.org>https://www.appsecdc.org**
> **
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owasp-website mailing list
> <Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org>Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
>  <https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website>
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website****
>
>  ****
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
>  <mark.bristow at owasp.org>mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - <http://is.gd/5MTvF>
> http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - <http://is.gd/5MTwu>http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - <https://www.appsecdc.org>https://www.appsecdc.org**
> **
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owasp-website mailing list
> <Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org>Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
>  <https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website>
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website****
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rohit Sethi
> SD Elements
> <http://www.sdelements.com>http://www.sdelements.com
> twitter: rksethi****
>
>  ****
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
>  <mark.bristow at owasp.org>mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - <http://is.gd/5MTvF>
> http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - <http://is.gd/5MTwu>http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - <https://www.appsecdc.org>https://www.appsecdc.org**
> **
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
> <mark.bristow at owasp.org>mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - <http://is.gd/5MTvF>
> http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - <http://is.gd/5MTwu>http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - <https://www.appsecdc.org>https://www.appsecdc.org**
> **
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owasp-website mailing list
> <Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org>Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
>  <https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website>
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website****
>
> ** **
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Bristow
> (703) 596-5175
>  <mark.bristow at owasp.org>mark.bristow at owasp.org
>
> OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - <http://is.gd/5MTvF>
> http://is.gd/5MTvF
> OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - <http://is.gd/5MTwu>http://is.gd/5MTwu
> AppSec DC Organizer - <https://www.appsecdc.org>https://www.appsecdc.org**
> **
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owasp-website mailing list
> <Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org>Owasp-website at lists.owasp.org
>  <https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website>
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-website****
>
>


-- 
Mark Bristow
(703) 596-5175
mark.bristow at owasp.org

OWASP Global Conferences Committee Chair - http://is.gd/5MTvF
OWASP DC Chapter Co-Chair - http://is.gd/5MTwu
AppSec DC Organizer - https://www.appsecdc.org
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