[Owasp-testing] Can you please give me some guidence on the Business Logic Section?

McGovern, James james.mcgovern at hp.com
Fri Jan 4 14:15:36 UTC 2013


The challenge of automation is a failure in how testing tools operate. Most tools are wired about the notion of point, shoot, aim and have no understanding of the business process itself. One thing I observed as an employee of The Hartford was how QA folks would recreate the same test case hundreds of times just so it could fit into the testing tool paradigm. For example, hundreds of applications all used say Siteminder that bound to Active Directory. So, authentication is something that should be done once provided it is implemented consistently and reused in multiple places.

Functional test tools unlike web vulnerability scanners are taking a step in aligning with the notion of business process testing. HP and others in the functional test tool world are releasing functionality in order to enable. See: http://www8.hp.com/us/en/software-solutions/software.html?compURI=1174789#.UObjK3ca7aE

One dimension of testing that I think we should noodle is to not be caught up in just testing of code. While OWASP is developer-centric, we shouldn't be developer-only. If we start with the mindset of automation against code vs starting with the mindset of finding weaknesses in how business processes are defined, we aren't doing the ultimate job of protecting the business. One way to find weaknesses in business processes is through threat modeling where we could provide guidance on identifying invariants, processes run out of sequence, etc

-----Original Message-----
From: owasp-testing-bounces at lists.owasp.org [mailto:owasp-testing-bounces at lists.owasp.org] On Behalf Of Jim Manico
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 7:18 PM
To: Andrew Muller
Cc: owasp-testing at lists.owasp.org
Subject: Re: [Owasp-testing] Can you please give me some guidence on the Business Logic Section?

The problem with business logic flaws is that they are often part of a complex multi-step workflow that can be difficult to automate.

- Jim


> There is also the other question raised by David, which relates to how we write test cases. A test case should simple and testable. The most understandable security test cases are those that test for a specific vulnerability or class of vulnerabilties. The more specific, the less confusion for the tester and the application owner when they receive the report. 
> 
> regards, 
>   Andrew
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> From: "Eoin" <eoin.keary at owasp.org>
> To: "James McGovern" <james.mcgovern at hp.com>
> Cc: "David Fern" <dfern at verizon.net>, "Andrew Muller" 
> <andrew at ionize.com.au>, owasp-testing at lists.owasp.org
> Sent: Friday, 4 January, 2013 4:12:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Owasp-testing] Can you please give me some guidence on the Business Logic Section? 
> 
> 
> Business logic testing/verification: 
> ensure the app only does what is is designed to do and nothing more. 
> Anything more (which it was not designed to do) may introduce a 
> security issue as it breaks the business process the software was 
> designed to reflect. - owasp code review guide v2 2013
> 
> 
> 
> Eoin Keary
> Owasp Global Board
> +353 87 977 2988
> 
> 
> 
> On 3 Jan 2013, at 12:46, "McGovern, James" < james.mcgovern at hp.com > wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the challenge is observing the fact that the phrase: Business Logic is heavily overloaded in all of the three links provided. The traditional "infosec" view defines a lot more things under the business logic banner than say a traditional software view would do. 
>   
> May I propose that we focus our usage of the term towards concepts of the business domain itself? For example, if you are developing an insurance quoting application, the business logic would be comprised of the rules and calculations required to price a combination of drivers and vehicles. The stuff regarding AuthN, AuthZ, etc would be outside of it. 
>   
> If you look at calculations for say taxes, we would then test for invariants. This could include looking at how validation is handled, the order in which processes/steps are executed and of course transactional considerations (e.g. ACID). 
>   
> 
> 
> From: owasp-testing-bounces at lists.owasp.org [ 
> mailto:owasp-testing-bounces at lists.owasp.org ] On Behalf Of David Fern
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 6:38 AM
> To: Andrew Muller
> Cc: owasp-testing at lists.owasp.org
> Subject: Re: [Owasp-testing] Can you please give me some guidence on the Business Logic Section? 
>   
> 
> 
> Here is where the lists came from and I like them: 
> 
>     Business Logic CWES - 
> http://cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/840.html
> 
>     7 Business Flaws - 
> https://www.whitehatsec.com/assets/WP_bizlogic092407.pdf
> 
>     Busines Logic Attack Vectors - http://www.ntobjectives.com/go/business-logic-attack-vectors-white-paper/      
> 
> The "Propoposed" came from - https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Testing_Guide_v4_Table_of_Contents  and this is what I thought I was to write to but then I started researching and found the other three. 
> 
> I am just not clear on which type of list I should use for the driving force of this section: the weaknesses(CWE), how to test, or risk   
> 
>   
> 
> What fits the guide best? 
> 
>   
> 
> I think once I get the groups thoughts on which way to go the other catagoies will be added in infomation and I can look through and use other related parts of the TOC as you indicated.    
> 
>   
> 
> Any thoughts?   
> 
>   
> 
> I like this section but an having trouble organizing. 
> 
>   
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> David :)
> 
> 
> 
> From: Andrew Muller < andrew at ionize.com.au >
> To: David Fern < dfern at verizon.net >
> Cc: owasp-testing at lists.owasp.org
> Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 8:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Owasp-testing] Can you please give me some guidence on the Business Logic Section? 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi David,
> 
>   Looks like a great compilation of business logic weaknesses and attacks. How did you derive the list from each of the four sources? i.e. why did you pick those weaknesses from the CWE? 
> 
>   
> 
> My comments are: 
> 
> 1) there is a lot of commonality between the four sources (as well as other areas within the Test Guide TOC, e.g. weak password recovery, see 4.4.11). Reconciling these will reduce the length of the list. 
> 
> 2) some of the sources have different functions. CWE identifies a weakness that we can test for, the Business Logic Attack Vectors mostly identifies how these can be tested, and the Business Flaws mostly highlights the high level risks to the business if the vulnerability exists and is exploited. However, as some of the sources appear to be cross purpose, this isn't consistent. 
> 
> My understanding of how you add them to the TOC is to just add them and see if anyone argues :) However, a more active discussion of each section would be good too. 
> 
>   
> 
> regards,
> 
>   Andrew
> 
> 
> From: "David Fern" < dfern at verizon.net >
> To: owasp-testing at lists.owasp.org
> Sent: Thursday, 3 January, 2013 11:55:37 AM 
> Subject: [Owasp-testing] Can you please give me some guidence on the        Business Logic Section? 
> 
> 
> Can you please give me some guidence on the Business Logic Section? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> I have done alot of research and come up with teh attached spread sheet and 4 different lists of Busines Logic issues. 
> 
>   
> 
> I have not been able to easily combine them. 
> 
>   
> 
> Should I just write to your list? 
> 
>   
> 
> Do I create a separate page for each?  
> 
>   
> 
> Any ideas/thoughts? 
> 
>   
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> David
>   
> 
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