<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I thought I did, by leading/founding 2 flagship projects & contributing to many more, founding a chapter, open sourcing my training and spending 2 terms on the global board......</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Thanks for the kind words, very professional.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br><br>Eoin Keary<div>OWASP Volunteer</div><div>@eoinkeary</div><div><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><br></span></div><div><br></div></div><div><br>On 20 May 2016, at 06:05, Jim Manico <<a href="mailto:jim.manico@owasp.org">jim.manico@owasp.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
  
    <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  
  
    <p>Be the change you want to see in the world. If you wish to change
      parts of OWASP that do not satisfy you, then please do something
      about it or shut the fuck up please.</p>
    <p>Thank you and Aloha, Jim<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/19/16 10:19 AM, Eoin Keary wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:CF6BE55E-B9AD-4B01-9AC3-8E19398010F0@owasp.org" type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div>Love seeing the passion when it comes to logos and
        identity..... Pity we don't see more of this when it comes to
        doing what OWASP was born to do 😜😠😍🙄🤔☹️😣</div>
      <div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
        <br>
        Eoin Keary
        <div>OWASP Volunteer</div>
        <div>@eoinkeary</div>
        <div><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        On 19 May 2016, at 15:03, johanna curiel curiel <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:johanna.curiel@owasp.org"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:johanna.curiel@owasp.org">johanna.curiel@owasp.org</a>>
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">>>Every new thing that
                OWASP tries doesn’t need to be wrap in a blanket of doom
                and gloom. </span><br>
            </font>
            <div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial,
                  helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
                </font></span></div>
            <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000">Welcome to my world ;-). Have you any
                idea how often I launch ideas that have been crushed
                by others in here, forgetting I'm just a  volunteer?
                Well, some people have valid point other don't. We have
                too keep moving fwd.</font></div>
            <div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial,
                  helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
                </font></span></div>
            <div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial,
                  helvetica, sans-serif">My point is not against the
                  logo. I support the logo.</font></span></div>
            <div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial,
                  helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
                </font></span></div>
            <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000">Is just that we launch this without
                having done the homework and legal framework. What is
                the rush? We could have wait a little more and avoid
                headaches. No one consult this properly.</font></div>
            <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000">I think if you have been following
                Dirk's activities, he is tired of preaching and not
                being heard, I have very often the same feeling too.</font></div>
            <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000">Cheers</font></div>
            <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000">Johanna</font></div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 8:49 AM,
              Larry Conklin <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:larry.conklin@owasp.org" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:larry.conklin@owasp.org">larry.conklin@owasp.org</a>></span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" color="#000000" size="3">
                  </font>
                  <p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt"><font face="Calibri"><font color="#000000" size="3">Johanna, I have to
                        respectfully disagree. Yes, TM issues do
                        exist. But that said I believe the issue is at
                        times as a community we focus
                        way too much of our time and effort on the
                        downside of anything new or
                        different. Bullet proof TM policies or not
                        doesn’t prevent anyone from abusing
                        our logos. </font><span><font color="#000000" size="3"> </font></span><font color="#000000" size="3">The same issue is for ISC(2)
                        which has badges. Coke Cola, Xerox, Kleenex have
                        the strongest brands worldwide,
                        with a huge cash pile and lawyers to protect
                        them. They are also in some form
                        of ligation everyday with people trying to abuse
                        or encroach on their bands.
                        Yes that is wrong but it’s not every going to
                        prevent someone from trying. Isn’t
                        the saying “imitation is the greatest
                        complement”. </font></font></p>
                  <font face="Times New Roman" color="#000000" size="3">
                  </font>
                  <p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt"><font face="Calibri" color="#000000" size="3">Also we as leaders did to
                      be much more proactive. OWASP
                      badges were no secret. We knew they were coming.
                      We even had a debate on the
                      logo style.</font></p>
                  <font face="Times New Roman" color="#000000" size="3">
                  </font>
                  <p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt"><font face="Calibri" color="#000000" size="3">My points is still valid
                      IMHO. We need to step back and breathe.
                      Every new thing that OWASP tries doesn’t need to
                      be wrap in a blanket of doom and
                      gloom. Yes there is lots of things and need to
                      change, things that need to be
                      fixed. As a large community everyone is not going
                      to work on everyone else’s
                      priority projects and nothing is ever going to be
                      perfect. </font></p>
                  <font face="Times New Roman" color="#000000" size="3">
                  </font>
                  <p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt"><font face="Calibri" color="#000000" size="3">Second we as leaders to
                      be more proactive, we need to have
                      much more active discussion before an event and
                      not afterwards. And we don’t
                      need to address everything as if the world is
                      falling down around us.</font></p>
                  <font face="Times New Roman" color="#000000" size="3">
                  </font>
                  <p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt"><font face="Calibri" color="#000000" size="3">I apologize if your email
                      and Dirk’s was not in that tone
                      but that is how it came across to me. </font></p>
                  <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><font face="Times New Roman" color="#000000" size="3">
                      </font><span style="line-height:107%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font color="#000000">Larry Conklin </font></span></font></span></div>
                <div class="HOEnZb">
                  <div class="h5">
                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 18, 2016 at
                        9:08 PM, johanna curiel curiel <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:johanna.curiel@owasp.org" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:johanna.curiel@owasp.org">johanna.curiel@owasp.org</a>></span>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div dir="ltr">me too<span>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div><span style="font-size:13px">Hi
                                  Larry,</span>
                                <div style="font-size:13px"><br>
                                </div>
                                <div style="font-size:13px">The problem
                                  is not the supporter logo.</div>
                                <div style="font-size:13px"><br>
                                </div>
                                <div style="font-size:13px">The issue is
                                  the lack of a TM and the lack of
                                  policies around the use of it, that
                                  can trigger brand abuses. </div>
                                <div style="font-size:13px"><br>
                                </div>
                                <div style="font-size:13px">I just asked
                                  my husband who is a lawyer and his
                                  opinion was that this should have been
                                  done BEFORE not AFTER the
                                  launch.However is not too late to
                                  provide a legal frameworks and
                                  policies around it but is going to
                                  cost money to find out.</div>
                                <span style="font-size:13px">
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>>>However, a major policy
                                    change will not likely occur before
                                    we've really thought this through
                                    and had some legal advice</div>
                                </span>
                                <div style="font-size:13px">Exactly. I
                                  though this was going to be launched
                                  when  this was defined properly.</div>
                                <div style="font-size:13px"><br>
                                </div>
                                <div style="font-size:13px">regards</div>
                              </div>
                            </span></div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 18,
                                  2016 at 8:51 PM, Larry Conklin <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:larry.conklin@owasp.org" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:larry.conklin@owasp.org">larry.conklin@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                                    <div dir="ltr">Not sure why but I
                                      got a message saying my original
                                      email failed.<span>
                                        <div><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">I
                                            think we need a new badge
                                            for doom and gloom. lol.
                                            Come on folks. We are proud
                                            of what we do at OWASP. We
                                            are proud of OWASP. We are
                                            proud of what OWASP has
                                            accomplish in the AppSec
                                            world. </span>
                                          <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div style="font-size:12.8px">Why
                                            wouldn't we want to show
                                            some love? This isn't
                                            something new but it is an
                                            emerging marketing tool.
                                            Today besides having an
                                            OWASP badge and can get a
                                            badge from ISC(2) for my
                                            CISSP certification. 
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>I am not diluting
                                              ISC(2) brand, nor am I
                                              diluting OWASP brand by
                                              using a badge. only thing
                                              I would be doing is
                                              showing my support in a
                                              visible way. Oh yes I can
                                              also get a badge for Linux
                                              Foundation CII.</div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div style="font-size:12.8px">Yes
                                            we could have a debate if
                                            badges really provide or
                                            increase motivation or
                                            increase marketing. That
                                            would be a good debate. But
                                            I haven't read one thing
                                            that says badges decrease a
                                            brand.</div>
                                          <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div style="font-size:12.8px">Who
                                            is really at fault. it's not
                                            like no one didn't see this
                                            coming.  Dirk and Johanna
                                            your voice would have been
                                            much better at the beginning
                                            of this conversation and not
                                            at the end IMHO. Take a
                                            moment, take a deep breath.
                                            If you don't like the badge
                                            don't use it.</div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div style="font-size:12.8px">Larry
                                          Conklin</div>
                                      </span></div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                          <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                            Wed, May 18, 2016 at 8:40
                                            PM, Larry Conklin <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:larry.conklin@owasp.org" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:larry.conklin@owasp.org">larry.conklin@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                            wrote:<br>
                                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                                              <div dir="ltr">I think we
                                                need a new badge for
                                                doom and gloom. lol.
                                                Come on folks. We are
                                                proud of what we do at
                                                OWASP. We are proud of
                                                OWASP. We are proud of
                                                what OWASP has
                                                accomplish in the AppSec
                                                world. 
                                                <div><br>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>Why wouldn't we
                                                  want to show some
                                                  love? This isn't
                                                  something new but it
                                                  is an emerging
                                                  marketing tool. Today
                                                  besides having an
                                                  OWASP badge and can
                                                  get a badge from
                                                  ISC(2) for my CISSP
                                                  certification. 
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>I am not diluting
                                                    ISC(2) brand, nor am
                                                    I diluting OWASP
                                                    brand by using a
                                                    badge. only thing I
                                                    would be doing is
                                                    showing my support
                                                    in a visible way. Oh
                                                    yes I can also get a
                                                    badge for Linux
                                                    Foundation CII.</div>
                                                </div>
                                                <div><br>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>Yes we could have a
                                                  debate if badges
                                                  really provide or
                                                  increase motivation or
                                                  increase marketing.
                                                  That would be a good
                                                  debate. But I haven't
                                                  read one thing that
                                                  says badges decrease a
                                                  brand.</div>
                                                <div><br>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>Who is really at
                                                  fault. it's not like
                                                  no one didn't see this
                                                  coming.  Dirk and
                                                  Johanna your voice
                                                  would have been much
                                                  better at the
                                                  beginning of this
                                                  conversation and not
                                                  at the end IMHO. Take
                                                  a moment, take a deep
                                                  breath. If you don't
                                                  like the badge don't
                                                  use it.</div>
                                                <span><font color="#888888">
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>Larry Conklin</div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </font></span></div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                    <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                                      Wed, May 18, 2016
                                                      at 7:12 PM,
                                                      johanna curiel
                                                      curiel <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:johanna.curiel@owasp.org" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:johanna.curiel@owasp.org">johanna.curiel@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                                      wrote:<br>
                                                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                                                        <div dir="ltr"><span>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:13px">>>To
                                                          make this
                                                          clear: I will
                                                          rather swallow
                                                          my keyboard
                                                          instead of
                                                          doing this. In
                                                          fact I am
                                                          trying to
                                                          fight those </span><span style="font-size:13px">cases but to me it seems that either nobody is
                                                          listening or
                                                          OWASP became a
                                                          vendor driven
                                                          organization.</span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </span>I share
                                                          Dirk's
                                                          concerns. 
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>This new
                                                          supporter logo
                                                          can cause more
                                                          brand abuses
                                                          because the
                                                          uses of it
                                                           has not being
                                                          properly
                                                          defined. </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>So far is
                                                          a free for
                                                          all, like Dirk
                                                          said. This
                                                          does not have
                                                          yet a TM on it
                                                          and it should
                                                          have it first
                                                          before going
                                                          to promote it
                                                          . Also specify
                                                          in which cases
                                                          can be used.
                                                          Now it can be
                                                          completely
                                                          abused without
                                                          OWASP being
                                                          able to have
                                                          any legal
                                                          framework to
                                                          avoid this.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div> If
                                                          anyone is
                                                          following
                                                          social media,
                                                           rumour has it
                                                          OWASP is a
                                                          vendor
                                                          ground. </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>I think
                                                          I'm an OWASP
                                                          supporter, I'm
                                                          not benefiting
                                                          financially on
                                                          (ab)using the
                                                          OWASP name
                                                          cause in my
                                                          country people
                                                          even has no
                                                          idea what
                                                          OWASP is.  I
                                                          assume those
                                                          in US and EU
                                                          can be more
                                                          interest in
                                                          (ab)use it.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>The
                                                          problem is
                                                          that it
                                                          misleads
                                                          people into
                                                          think that
                                                          OWASP has an
                                                          'approval
                                                          seal' on
                                                          anything a
                                                          vendor or
                                                          individual
                                                          does.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Are we
                                                          promoting more
                                                          our 'vendor
                                                          neutrality'
                                                          with this? I
                                                          don't think
                                                          so. </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Now is a
                                                          free for all.
                                                          Good luck
                                                          checking
                                                          abuses. No
                                                          legal
                                                          framework
                                                          right now for
                                                          control.</div>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:13px"><br>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div class="gmail_extra">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                                          Wed, May 18,
                                                          2016 at 6:41
                                                          PM, Dirk
                                                          Wetter <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dirk@owasp.org" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dirk@owasp.org">dirk@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><br>
                                                          Hi all,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I am not often
                                                          writing to the
                                                          leaders list.
                                                          Time has come
                                                          though to
                                                          share concerns
                                                          with you.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          My trigger is
                                                          the new
                                                          supporter logo
                                                          "strategy"
                                                          which became
                                                          public today:<br>
                                                          <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://twitter.com/owasp/status/732921073025572864" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/owasp/status/732921073025572864">https://twitter.com/owasp/status/732921073025572864</a><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I considered
                                                          the OWASP logo
                                                          as our core
                                                          value. I
                                                          represents
                                                          OWASP's good<br>
                                                          standing. Lot
                                                          of people in
                                                          the community
                                                          contributed to
                                                          build up our
                                                          reputation<br>
                                                          and -- as a
                                                          consequence --
                                                          to our brand.
                                                          That is good.
                                                          Most of the
                                                          contributors<br>
                                                          were
                                                          altruistic.
                                                          That's how I
                                                          understand
                                                          Open Source.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Now it looks
                                                          to me we are
                                                          giving our
                                                          good standing
                                                          away instead
                                                          of putting
                                                          strong
                                                          controls<br>
                                                          at it. First
                                                          question: Why
                                                          do we need to
                                                          do this? Is
                                                          this because
                                                          we feel the
                                                          need to<br>
                                                          get more
                                                          people to
                                                          OWASP and we
                                                          are somehow
                                                          blindfolded
                                                          not able to<br>
                                                          look at the
                                                          consequences
                                                          of a logo
                                                          distribution?
                                                          Or are there
                                                          the commercial
                                                          interests
                                                          ruling here?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Worse: the
                                                          branding
                                                          guide  (<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Marketing/Resources#tab=BRAND_GUIDELINES" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Marketing/Resources#tab=BRAND_GUIDELINES">https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Marketing/Resources#tab=BRAND_GUIDELINES</a>)<br>
                                                          is more or
                                                          less still the
                                                          same. I had
                                                          some
                                                          discussions
                                                          warning that
                                                          we should fix
                                                          the bugs in
                                                          the branding
                                                          guide<br>
                                                          first before
                                                          doing this.
                                                          Heck, we don't
                                                          even have a
                                                          trademark
                                                          policy yet, no
                                                          legal
                                                          constraint [1]<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          This is quite
                                                          the opposite
                                                          as the speaker
                                                          agreement --
                                                          by the way.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          To go into
                                                          detail
                                                          (attention,
                                                          sarcasm)<br>
============================<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          5. The OWASP
                                                          Brand may be
                                                          used in
                                                          association
                                                          with an
                                                          application
                                                          security
                                                          assessment
                                                          only if a
                                                          complete and
                                                          detailed
                                                          methodology,
                                                          sufficient to
                                                          reproduce the
                                                          results, is
                                                          disclosed.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          ==> Cool,
                                                          OWASP allows
                                                          me to put
                                                          their logo on
                                                          my pentests.
                                                          That certainly
                                                          sounds good
                                                          for my
                                                          costumers also
                                                          if I<br>
                                                            present BS
                                                          to him (well,
                                                          if I care, I
                                                          could describe
                                                          the complete
                                                          and detailed
                                                          methodology --
                                                          but who cares!
                                                          Nobody<br>
                                                            can control
                                                          it as my
                                                          costumer will
                                                          certainly has
                                                          no interest to
                                                          publish my
                                                          report with
                                                          his bugs)<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          BTW: This
                                                          could also be
                                                          applied for
                                                          tools.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          3. The OWASP
                                                          Brand may be
                                                          used by OWASP
                                                          Members in
                                                          good standing
                                                          to acknowledge
                                                          a person's
                                                          involvement in
                                                          or a company's
                                                          support of
                                                          OWASP.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          ==> C00l. I
                                                          edit the wiki,
                                                          change a
                                                          letter and I
                                                          can use the
                                                          OWASP brand on
                                                          my website to
                                                          promote my
                                                          business.<br>
                                                                 Or I
                                                          write a mail
                                                          to the leaders
                                                          list. Heck, in
                                                          fact, as I am
                                                          on this list,
                                                          I made it and
                                                          can use the
                                                          OWASP logo
                                                          everywhere!!!<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          BTW: If a
                                                          local chapter
                                                          has corporate
                                                          sponsorships
                                                          like the
                                                          global ones,
                                                          vendor XYZ
                                                          purchases this
                                                          sponsorship<br>
                                                          for ten bucks,
                                                          getting a logo
                                                          in return and
                                                          next
                                                          exhibition he
                                                          puts this as a
                                                          sticker to his
                                                          WAF. W00t!<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          1. The OWASP
                                                          Brand may be
                                                          used to direct
                                                          people to the
                                                          OWASP website
                                                          for
                                                          information
                                                          about
                                                          application
                                                          security.<br>
                                                          2. The OWASP
                                                          Brand may be
                                                          used in
                                                          commentary
                                                          about the
                                                          materials
                                                          found on the
                                                          OWASP website.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          ==> 1337! I
                                                          can still use
                                                          the logo on my
                                                          commercial web
                                                          site. My idea
                                                          is here is to
                                                          sell a service
                                                          or a product.
                                                          But<br>
                                                                 if
                                                          anyone reads
                                                          it of course I
                                                          will argue
                                                          that I only
                                                          intended to
                                                          point to
                                                          OWASP.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Hopefully you
                                                          got the
                                                          message
                                                          without
                                                          feeling
                                                          offended.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          To make this
                                                          clear: I will
                                                          rather swallow
                                                          my keyboard
                                                          instead of
                                                          doing this. In
                                                          fact I am
                                                          trying to
                                                          fight those<br>
                                                          cases but to
                                                          me it seems
                                                          that either
                                                          nobody is
                                                          listening or
                                                          OWASP became a
                                                          vendor driven
                                                          organization.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          As a
                                                          consequence I
                                                          am afraid if
                                                          we don't agree
                                                          on a strong
                                                          logo /
                                                          trademark
                                                          policy we are
commercializing more and more.<br>
                                                          Where is "my
                                                          OWASP" I used
                                                          to love?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Dirk<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          [1] Even ISACA
                                                          has stronger
                                                          usage rules of
                                                          their brand
                                                          (not talking
                                                          about
                                                          materials!):<br>
                                                             <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.isaca.org/About-ISACA/Licensing-and-Promotion/Pages/IP-Guidelines.aspx#usageRules" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.isaca.org/About-ISACA/Licensing-and-Promotion/Pages/IP-Guidelines.aspx#usageRules">http://www.isaca.org/About-ISACA/Licensing-and-Promotion/Pages/IP-Guidelines.aspx#usageRules</a><br>
                                                          <span><font color="#888888"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          --<br>
                                                          German OWASP
                                                          Chapter Lead<br>
                                                          Send me
                                                          encrypted
                                                          mails (Key ID
                                                          0xB818C039)<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          OWASP-Leaders
                                                          mailing list<br>
                                                          <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a><br>
                                                          <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a><br>
                                                          </font></span></blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br clear="all">
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <span><font color="#888888">--
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>Johanna
                                                          Curiel </div>
                                                          OWASP
                                                          Volunteer</div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        OWASP-Leaders
                                                        mailing list<br>
                                                        <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a><br>
                                                        <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <br>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </blockquote>
                                          </div>
                                          <br>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <br clear="all">
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                -- <br>
                                <div>
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div>Johanna Curiel </div>
                                    OWASP Volunteer</div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <br>
            <br clear="all">
            <div><br>
            </div>
            -- <br>
            <div class="gmail_signature">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>Johanna Curiel </div>
                OWASP Volunteer</div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
          <span>OWASP-Leaders mailing list</span><br>
          <span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a></span><br>
          <span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a></span><br>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OWASP-Leaders mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  

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