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    My apologies Johanna. That was not at all directed to you.<br>
    <br>
    - Jim<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
      <br>
      On 5/19/16 10:24 PM, johanna curiel curiel wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CACxry_3rSatgty0=5M6V9rii-2Vfkhu0EhYWKCvo7dnCC88V4A@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">Hey Jim
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Elizabeth has in this same email chain ask us to use a more
        formal tone and you just go throw F words?</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>On another email Tony has just done the same allegory to the
        F to me</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      What is this ? Is this the way we discuss issues? Treat peeps with
      respect?
      <div>You think I'm going to shut up?</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Your record using the f word is going to break records </div>
      <div>:-p </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>
        <div><br>
          On Friday, May 20, 2016, Jim Manico <<a
            moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jim.manico@owasp.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jim.manico@owasp.org">jim.manico@owasp.org</a></a>>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
              <p>Be the change you want to see in the world. If you wish
                to change parts of OWASP that do not satisfy you, then
                please do something about it or shut the fuck up please.</p>
              <p>Thank you and Aloha, Jim<br>
              </p>
              <br>
              <div>On 5/19/16 10:19 AM, Eoin Keary wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div>Love seeing the passion when it comes to logos and
                  identity..... Pity we don't see more of this when it
                  comes to doing what OWASP was born to do
                  😜😠😍🙄🤔☹️😣</div>
                <div><br>
                  <br>
                  Eoin Keary
                  <div>OWASP Volunteer</div>
                  <div>@eoinkeary</div>
                  <div><span style="font-size:13pt"><br>
                    </span></div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                  On 19 May 2016, at 15:03, johanna curiel curiel <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','johanna.curiel@owasp.org');"
                    target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:johanna.curiel@owasp.org">johanna.curiel@owasp.org</a></a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div>
                    <div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, helvetica,
                        sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">>>Every
                          new thing that OWASP tries doesn’t need to be
                          wrap in a blanket of doom and gloom. </span><br>
                      </font>
                      <div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font
                            face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
                          </font></span></div>
                      <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"
                          color="#000000">Welcome to my world ;-). Have
                          you any idea how often I launch ideas that
                          have been crushed by others in here,
                          forgetting I'm just a  volunteer? Well, some
                          people have valid point other don't. We have
                          too keep moving fwd.</font></div>
                      <div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font
                            face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
                          </font></span></div>
                      <div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font
                            face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">My point
                            is not against the logo. I support the logo.</font></span></div>
                      <div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font
                            face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
                          </font></span></div>
                      <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"
                          color="#000000">Is just that we launch this
                          without having done the homework and legal
                          framework. What is the rush? We could have
                          wait a little more and avoid headaches. No
                          one consult this properly.</font></div>
                      <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"
                          color="#000000"><br>
                        </font></div>
                      <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"
                          color="#000000">I think if you have
                          been following Dirk's activities, he is tired
                          of preaching and not being heard, I have very
                          often the same feeling too.</font></div>
                      <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"
                          color="#000000"><br>
                        </font></div>
                      <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"
                          color="#000000">Cheers</font></div>
                      <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"
                          color="#000000"><br>
                        </font></div>
                      <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"
                          color="#000000">Johanna</font></div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 19, 2016 at
                        8:49 AM, Larry Conklin <span dir="ltr"><<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','larry.conklin@owasp.org');"
                            target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:larry.conklin@owasp.org">larry.conklin@owasp.org</a></a>></span>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman"
                              color="#000000" size="3"> </font>
                            <p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt"><font
                                face="Calibri"><font color="#000000"
                                  size="3">Johanna, I have to
                                  respectfully disagree. Yes, TM issues
                                  do exist. But that said I believe the
                                  issue is at times as a community we
                                  focus way too much of our time and
                                  effort on the downside of anything new
                                  or different. Bullet proof TM policies
                                  or not doesn’t prevent anyone from
                                  abusing our logos. </font><span><font
                                    color="#000000" size="3"> </font></span><font
                                  color="#000000" size="3">The same
                                  issue is for ISC(2) which has badges.
                                  Coke Cola, Xerox, Kleenex have the
                                  strongest brands worldwide, with a
                                  huge cash pile and lawyers to protect
                                  them. They are also in some form of
                                  ligation everyday with people trying
                                  to abuse or encroach on their bands.
                                  Yes that is wrong but it’s not every
                                  going to prevent someone from trying.
                                  Isn’t the saying “imitation is the
                                  greatest complement”. </font></font></p>
                            <font face="Times New Roman" color="#000000"
                              size="3"> </font>
                            <p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt"><font
                                face="Calibri" color="#000000" size="3">Also
                                we as leaders did to be much more
                                proactive. OWASP badges were no secret.
                                We knew they were coming. We even had a
                                debate on the logo style.</font></p>
                            <font face="Times New Roman" color="#000000"
                              size="3"> </font>
                            <p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt"><font
                                face="Calibri" color="#000000" size="3">My
                                points is still valid IMHO. We need to
                                step back and breathe. Every new thing
                                that OWASP tries doesn’t need to be wrap
                                in a blanket of doom and gloom. Yes
                                there is lots of things and need to
                                change, things that need to be fixed. As
                                a large community everyone is not going
                                to work on everyone else’s priority
                                projects and nothing is ever going to be
                                perfect. </font></p>
                            <font face="Times New Roman" color="#000000"
                              size="3"> </font>
                            <p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt"><font
                                face="Calibri" color="#000000" size="3">Second
                                we as leaders to be more proactive, we
                                need to have much more active discussion
                                before an event and not afterwards. And
                                we don’t need to address everything as
                                if the world is falling down around us.</font></p>
                            <font face="Times New Roman" color="#000000"
                              size="3"> </font>
                            <p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt"><font
                                face="Calibri" color="#000000" size="3">I
                                apologize if your email and Dirk’s was
                                not in that tone but that is how it came
                                across to me. </font></p>
                            <span><font color="#888888"><font
                                  face="Times New Roman" color="#000000"
                                  size="3"> </font><span
style="line-height:107%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
                                    color="#000000">Larry Conklin </font></span></font></span></div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 18,
                                  2016 at 9:08 PM, johanna curiel curiel
                                  <span dir="ltr"><<a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','johanna.curiel@owasp.org');"
                                      target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:johanna.curiel@owasp.org">johanna.curiel@owasp.org</a></a>></span>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin:0 0 0
                                    .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                    solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                    <div dir="ltr">me too<span>
                                        <div><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div><span
                                            style="font-size:13px">Hi
                                            Larry,</span>
                                          <div style="font-size:13px"><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div style="font-size:13px">The
                                            problem is not the supporter
                                            logo.</div>
                                          <div style="font-size:13px"><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div style="font-size:13px">The
                                            issue is the lack of a TM
                                            and the lack of policies
                                            around the use of it, that
                                            can trigger brand abuses. </div>
                                          <div style="font-size:13px"><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div style="font-size:13px">I
                                            just asked my husband who is
                                            a lawyer and his opinion was
                                            that this should have been
                                            done BEFORE not AFTER the
                                            launch.However is not too
                                            late to provide a legal
                                            frameworks and policies
                                            around it but is going to
                                            cost money to find out.</div>
                                          <span style="font-size:13px">
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>>>However, a
                                              major policy change will
                                              not likely occur before
                                              we've really thought this
                                              through and had some legal
                                              advice</div>
                                          </span>
                                          <div style="font-size:13px">Exactly.
                                            I though this was going to
                                            be launched when  this was
                                            defined properly.</div>
                                          <div style="font-size:13px"><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div style="font-size:13px">regards</div>
                                        </div>
                                      </span></div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                          <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                            Wed, May 18, 2016 at 8:51
                                            PM, Larry Conklin <span
                                              dir="ltr"><<a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','larry.conklin@owasp.org');"
                                                target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:larry.conklin@owasp.org">larry.conklin@owasp.org</a></a>></span>
                                            wrote:<br>
                                            <blockquote
                                              class="gmail_quote"
                                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                                              <div dir="ltr">Not sure
                                                why but I got a message
                                                saying my original email
                                                failed.<span>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div><span
                                                      style="font-size:12.8px">I
                                                      think we need a
                                                      new badge for doom
                                                      and gloom. lol.
                                                      Come on folks. We
                                                      are proud of what
                                                      we do at OWASP. We
                                                      are proud of
                                                      OWASP. We are
                                                      proud of what
                                                      OWASP has
                                                      accomplish in the
                                                      AppSec world. </span>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="font-size:12.8px">Why
                                                      wouldn't we want
                                                      to show some love?
                                                      This isn't
                                                      something new but
                                                      it is an emerging
                                                      marketing tool.
                                                      Today besides
                                                      having an OWASP
                                                      badge and can get
                                                      a badge from
                                                      ISC(2) for my
                                                      CISSP
                                                      certification. 
                                                      <div><br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>I am not
                                                        diluting ISC(2)
                                                        brand, nor am I
                                                        diluting OWASP
                                                        brand by using a
                                                        badge. only
                                                        thing I would be
                                                        doing is showing
                                                        my support in a
                                                        visible way. Oh
                                                        yes I can also
                                                        get a badge for
                                                        Linux Foundation
                                                        CII.</div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="font-size:12.8px">Yes
                                                      we could have a
                                                      debate if badges
                                                      really provide or
                                                      increase
                                                      motivation or
                                                      increase
                                                      marketing. That
                                                      would be a good
                                                      debate. But I
                                                      haven't read one
                                                      thing that says
                                                      badges decrease a
                                                      brand.</div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="font-size:12.8px">Who
                                                      is really at
                                                      fault. it's not
                                                      like no one didn't
                                                      see this coming. 
                                                      Dirk and Johanna
                                                      your voice would
                                                      have been much
                                                      better at the
                                                      beginning of this
                                                      conversation and
                                                      not at the end
                                                      IMHO. Take a
                                                      moment, take a
                                                      deep breath. If
                                                      you don't like the
                                                      badge don't use
                                                      it.</div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div
                                                    style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div
                                                    style="font-size:12.8px">Larry
                                                    Conklin</div>
                                                </span></div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div
                                                    class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                    <div
                                                      class="gmail_quote">On
                                                      Wed, May 18, 2016
                                                      at 8:40 PM, Larry
                                                      Conklin <span
                                                        dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','larry.conklin@owasp.org');"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:larry.conklin@owasp.org">larry.conklin@owasp.org</a></a>></span> wrote:<br>
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                                                        <div dir="ltr">I
                                                          think we need
                                                          a new badge
                                                          for doom and
                                                          gloom. lol.
                                                          Come on folks.
                                                          We are proud
                                                          of what we do
                                                          at OWASP. We
                                                          are proud of
                                                          OWASP. We are
                                                          proud of what
                                                          OWASP has
                                                          accomplish in
                                                          the AppSec
                                                          world. 
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Why
                                                          wouldn't we
                                                          want to show
                                                          some love?
                                                          This isn't
                                                          something new
                                                          but it is an
                                                          emerging
                                                          marketing
                                                          tool. Today
                                                          besides having
                                                          an OWASP badge
                                                          and can get a
                                                          badge from
                                                          ISC(2) for my
                                                          CISSP
                                                          certification. 
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>I am not
                                                          diluting
                                                          ISC(2) brand,
                                                          nor am I
                                                          diluting OWASP
                                                          brand by using
                                                          a badge. only
                                                          thing I would
                                                          be doing is
                                                          showing my
                                                          support in a
                                                          visible way.
                                                          Oh yes I can
                                                          also get a
                                                          badge for
                                                          Linux
                                                          Foundation
                                                          CII.</div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Yes we
                                                          could have a
                                                          debate if
                                                          badges really
                                                          provide or
                                                          increase
                                                          motivation or
                                                          increase
                                                          marketing.
                                                          That would be
                                                          a good debate.
                                                          But I haven't
                                                          read one thing
                                                          that says
                                                          badges
                                                          decrease a
                                                          brand.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Who is
                                                          really at
                                                          fault. it's
                                                          not like no
                                                          one didn't see
                                                          this coming. 
                                                          Dirk and
                                                          Johanna your
                                                          voice would
                                                          have been much
                                                          better at the
                                                          beginning of
                                                          this
                                                          conversation
                                                          and not at the
                                                          end IMHO. Take
                                                          a moment, take
                                                          a deep breath.
                                                          If you don't
                                                          like the badge
                                                          don't use it.</div>
                                                          <span><font
                                                          color="#888888">
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Larry
                                                          Conklin</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">On
                                                          Wed, May 18,
                                                          2016 at 7:12
                                                          PM, johanna
                                                          curiel curiel
                                                          <span
                                                          dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','johanna.curiel@owasp.org');"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:johanna.curiel@owasp.org">johanna.curiel@owasp.org</a></a>></span> wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                                                          <div dir="ltr"><span>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          style="font-size:13px">>>To
                                                          make this
                                                          clear: I will
                                                          rather swallow
                                                          my keyboard
                                                          instead of
                                                          doing this. In
                                                          fact I am
                                                          trying to
                                                          fight those </span><span
style="font-size:13px">cases but to me it seems that either nobody is
                                                          listening or
                                                          OWASP became a
                                                          vendor driven
                                                          organization.</span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </span>I share
                                                          Dirk's
                                                          concerns. 
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>This new
                                                          supporter logo
                                                          can cause more
                                                          brand abuses
                                                          because the
                                                          uses of it
                                                           has not being
                                                          properly
                                                          defined. </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>So far is
                                                          a free for
                                                          all, like Dirk
                                                          said. This
                                                          does not have
                                                          yet a TM on it
                                                          and it should
                                                          have it first
                                                          before going
                                                          to promote it
                                                          . Also specify
                                                          in which cases
                                                          can be used.
                                                          Now it can be
                                                          completely
                                                          abused without
                                                          OWASP being
                                                          able to have
                                                          any legal
                                                          framework to
                                                          avoid this.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div> If
                                                          anyone is
                                                          following
                                                          social media,
                                                           rumour has it
                                                          OWASP is a
                                                          vendor
                                                          ground. </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>I think
                                                          I'm an OWASP
                                                          supporter, I'm
                                                          not benefiting
                                                          financially on
                                                          (ab)using the
                                                          OWASP name
                                                          cause in my
                                                          country people
                                                          even has no
                                                          idea what
                                                          OWASP is.  I
                                                          assume those
                                                          in US and EU
                                                          can be more
                                                          interest in
                                                          (ab)use it.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>The
                                                          problem is
                                                          that it
                                                          misleads
                                                          people into
                                                          think that
                                                          OWASP has an
                                                          'approval
                                                          seal' on
                                                          anything a
                                                          vendor or
                                                          individual
                                                          does.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Are we
                                                          promoting more
                                                          our 'vendor
                                                          neutrality'
                                                          with this? I
                                                          don't think
                                                          so. </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Now is a
                                                          free for all.
                                                          Good luck
                                                          checking
                                                          abuses. No
                                                          legal
                                                          framework
                                                          right now for
                                                          control.</div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          style="font-size:13px"><br>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_extra">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">On
                                                          Wed, May 18,
                                                          2016 at 6:41
                                                          PM, Dirk
                                                          Wetter <span
                                                          dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dirk@owasp.org');"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dirk@owasp.org">dirk@owasp.org</a></a>></span> wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><br>
                                                          Hi all,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I am not often
                                                          writing to the
                                                          leaders list.
                                                          Time has come
                                                          though to
                                                          share concerns
                                                          with you.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          My trigger is
                                                          the new
                                                          supporter logo
                                                          "strategy"
                                                          which became
                                                          public today:<br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://twitter.com/owasp/status/732921073025572864"
                                                          target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/owasp/status/732921073025572864">https://twitter.com/owasp/status/732921073025572864</a></a><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I considered
                                                          the OWASP logo
                                                          as our core
                                                          value. I
                                                          represents
                                                          OWASP's good<br>
                                                          standing. Lot
                                                          of people in
                                                          the community
                                                          contributed to
                                                          build up our
                                                          reputation<br>
                                                          and -- as a
                                                          consequence --
                                                          to our brand.
                                                          That is good.
                                                          Most of the
                                                          contributors<br>
                                                          were
                                                          altruistic.
                                                          That's how I
                                                          understand
                                                          Open Source.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Now it looks
                                                          to me we are
                                                          giving our
                                                          good standing
                                                          away instead
                                                          of putting
                                                          strong
                                                          controls<br>
                                                          at it. First
                                                          question: Why
                                                          do we need to
                                                          do this? Is
                                                          this because
                                                          we feel the
                                                          need to<br>
                                                          get more
                                                          people to
                                                          OWASP and we
                                                          are somehow
                                                          blindfolded
                                                          not able to<br>
                                                          look at the
                                                          consequences
                                                          of a logo
                                                          distribution?
                                                          Or are there
                                                          the commercial
                                                          interests
                                                          ruling here?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Worse: the
                                                          branding
                                                          guide  (<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Marketing/Resources#tab=BRAND_GUIDELINES"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Marketing/Resources#tab=BRAND_GUIDELINES">https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Marketing/Resources#tab=BRAND_GUIDELINES</a></a>)<br>
                                                          is more or
                                                          less still the
                                                          same. I had
                                                          some
                                                          discussions
                                                          warning that
                                                          we should fix
                                                          the bugs in
                                                          the branding
                                                          guide<br>
                                                          first before
                                                          doing this.
                                                          Heck, we don't
                                                          even have a
                                                          trademark
                                                          policy yet, no
                                                          legal
                                                          constraint [1]<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          This is quite
                                                          the opposite
                                                          as the speaker
                                                          agreement --
                                                          by the way.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          To go into
                                                          detail
                                                          (attention,
                                                          sarcasm)<br>
============================<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          5. The OWASP
                                                          Brand may be
                                                          used in
                                                          association
                                                          with an
                                                          application
                                                          security
                                                          assessment
                                                          only if a
                                                          complete and
                                                          detailed
                                                          methodology,
                                                          sufficient to
                                                          reproduce the
                                                          results, is
                                                          disclosed.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          ==> Cool,
                                                          OWASP allows
                                                          me to put
                                                          their logo on
                                                          my pentests.
                                                          That certainly
                                                          sounds good
                                                          for my
                                                          costumers also
                                                          if I<br>
                                                            present BS
                                                          to him (well,
                                                          if I care, I
                                                          could describe
                                                          the complete
                                                          and detailed
                                                          methodology --
                                                          but who cares!
                                                          Nobody<br>
                                                            can control
                                                          it as my
                                                          costumer will
                                                          certainly has
                                                          no interest to
                                                          publish my
                                                          report with
                                                          his bugs)<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          BTW: This
                                                          could also be
                                                          applied for
                                                          tools.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          3. The OWASP
                                                          Brand may be
                                                          used by OWASP
                                                          Members in
                                                          good standing
                                                          to acknowledge
                                                          a person's
                                                          involvement in
                                                          or a company's
                                                          support of
                                                          OWASP.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          ==> C00l. I
                                                          edit the wiki,
                                                          change a
                                                          letter and I
                                                          can use the
                                                          OWASP brand on
                                                          my website to
                                                          promote my
                                                          business.<br>
                                                                 Or I
                                                          write a mail
                                                          to the leaders
                                                          list. Heck, in
                                                          fact, as I am
                                                          on this list,
                                                          I made it and
                                                          can use the
                                                          OWASP logo
                                                          everywhere!!!<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          BTW: If a
                                                          local chapter
                                                          has corporate
                                                          sponsorships
                                                          like the
                                                          global ones,
                                                          vendor XYZ
                                                          purchases this
                                                          sponsorship<br>
                                                          for ten bucks,
                                                          getting a logo
                                                          in return and
                                                          next
                                                          exhibition he
                                                          puts this as a
                                                          sticker to his
                                                          WAF. W00t!<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          1. The OWASP
                                                          Brand may be
                                                          used to direct
                                                          people to the
                                                          OWASP website
                                                          for
                                                          information
                                                          about
                                                          application
                                                          security.<br>
                                                          2. The OWASP
                                                          Brand may be
                                                          used in
                                                          commentary
                                                          about the
                                                          materials
                                                          found on the
                                                          OWASP website.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          ==> 1337! I
                                                          can still use
                                                          the logo on my
                                                          commercial web
                                                          site. My idea
                                                          is here is to
                                                          sell a service
                                                          or a product.
                                                          But<br>
                                                                 if
                                                          anyone reads
                                                          it of course I
                                                          will argue
                                                          that I only
                                                          intended to
                                                          point to
                                                          OWASP.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Hopefully you
                                                          got the
                                                          message
                                                          without
                                                          feeling
                                                          offended.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          To make this
                                                          clear: I will
                                                          rather swallow
                                                          my keyboard
                                                          instead of
                                                          doing this. In
                                                          fact I am
                                                          trying to
                                                          fight those<br>
                                                          cases but to
                                                          me it seems
                                                          that either
                                                          nobody is
                                                          listening or
                                                          OWASP became a
                                                          vendor driven
                                                          organization.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          As a
                                                          consequence I
                                                          am afraid if
                                                          we don't agree
                                                          on a strong
                                                          logo /
                                                          trademark
                                                          policy we are
commercializing more and more.<br>
                                                          Where is "my
                                                          OWASP" I used
                                                          to love?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Dirk<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          [1] Even ISACA
                                                          has stronger
                                                          usage rules of
                                                          their brand
                                                          (not talking
                                                          about
                                                          materials!):<br>
                                                             <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.isaca.org/About-ISACA/Licensing-and-Promotion/Pages/IP-Guidelines.aspx#usageRules"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.isaca.org/About-ISACA/Licensing-and-Promotion/Pages/IP-Guidelines.aspx#usageRules">http://www.isaca.org/About-ISACA/Licensing-and-Promotion/Pages/IP-Guidelines.aspx#usageRules</a></a><br>
                                                          <span><font
                                                          color="#888888"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          --<br>
                                                          German OWASP
                                                          Chapter Lead<br>
                                                          Send me
                                                          encrypted
                                                          mails (Key ID
                                                          0xB818C039)<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          OWASP-Leaders
                                                          mailing list<br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org');"
                                                          target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a></a><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders"
                                                          target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a></a><br>
                                                          </font></span></blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br
                                                          clear="all">
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <span><font
                                                          color="#888888">--
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>Johanna
                                                          Curiel </div>
                                                          OWASP
                                                          Volunteer</div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                          <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          OWASP-Leaders
                                                          mailing list<br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org');"
                                                          target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a></a><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders"
                                                          target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a></a><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <br>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </blockquote>
                                          </div>
                                          <br>
                                          <br clear="all">
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          -- <br>
                                          <div>
                                            <div dir="ltr">
                                              <div>Johanna Curiel </div>
                                              OWASP Volunteer</div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <br clear="all">
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      -- <br>
                      <div>
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div>Johanna Curiel </div>
                          OWASP Volunteer</div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
                    <span>OWASP-Leaders mailing list</span><br>
                    <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org');"
                        target="_blank">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a></span><br>
                    <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders"
                        target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a></span><br>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
                <fieldset></fieldset>
                <br>
                <pre>_______________________________________________
OWASP-Leaders mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org');" target="_blank">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders" target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a>
</pre>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
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      <br>
      -- <br>
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        <div>Johanna Curiel </div>
        OWASP Volunteer</div>
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