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    > Since there are no committees, just 1 right now, it is clear
    that most decisions and initiatives are coming from board members or
    lonely souls like me. This is the issue.<br>
    <br>
    The board set up a very clear structure for those who want to effect
    change - so it's there, it just needs to be used. :)<br>
    <br>
    > The committees structure is not working because there are no
    committees. This unintentionally is causing oligarchy, sad to admit
    it but I'm also part of it.<br>
    <br>
    An oligarchy that anyone can join or initiate - is not really an
    oligarchy. <br>
    <br>
    Johanna, I believe that structures area already set up to handle the
    things you want. Maybe we need to advertise them more often. That is
    just my opinion, it's very cool if you have a different perspective.<br>
    <br>
    I am ok with surveys, but I get the feeling they are fatiguing on
    the community since they often get low turnout. <br>
    <br>
    I can tell by your recent batch of emails that you are very unhappy
    with the OWASP Foundation right now Johanna. That upsets me, because
    I am very grateful for all of your many contributions to OWASP. I am
    doing my best to work with the board to do good by the OWASP
    community. If you have time, please consider attending some of our
    board meetings and help us make better decisions. In the meantime, I
    am happy to continue this conversation and/or propose specific
    changes to the board on your behalf if you prefer.<br>
    <br>
    Aloha,<br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Jim Manico
Global Board Member
OWASP Foundation
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.owasp.org">https://www.owasp.org</a>
Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!</pre>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/17/15 4:35 PM, johanna curiel
      curiel wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CACxry_3qFhkbJC6faZA26eDk_SOwn0sygPhvaowUdzOxSMFF1g@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">JIm
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Since there are no committees, just 1 right now, it is
          clear that most decisions and initiatives are coming from
          boar, staff anmd d members or lonely souls like me. This is
          the issue.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The committees structure is not working because there are
          no committees. This unintentionally is causing oligarchy, sad
          to admit it but I'm also part of it.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The surveys should not become part of another difficult
          structure to take decisions. It should just be there to
          measure or substantiate the compass of what the community
          wants and what kind of initiatives should be proposed and
          their opinion on the results of the last initiatives. So the
          board can better decide to support on favour or against and
          initiative when someone proposes.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Regards</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Johanna</div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 10:25 PM, Jim
          Manico <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:jim.manico@owasp.org" target="_blank">jim.manico@owasp.org</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> My understanding is
              that the current Committee 2.0 process was born from the
              link you just sent. We debated and voted on the final
              committee structure and Josh posted it here in July 2014.
              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="https://owasp.org/index.php/Governance/OWASP_Committees"
                target="_blank">https://owasp.org/index.php/Governance/OWASP_Committees</a><br>
              <br>
              The board or staff would like to get involved when
              contracts are being signed on behalf of the OWASP
              Foundation, which I think is sensible. Do you think we
              should change this to a community vote? That would
              significantly reduce the empowerment of committees.... Or
              do you want to board to stop voting on things and have a
              community vote on all board-level issues instead?<br>
              <br>
              Anyhow, here is the current relevant committee voting
              structure. I think this is a pretty sensible balance.
              <h2 style="color:black;font-weight:normal;margin:1em 0px
                0.25em;overflow:hidden;padding:0px;border-bottom-width:1px;border-bottom-style:solid;border-bottom-color:rgb(170,170,170);font-size:1.5em;font-family:sans-serif;line-height:1.3;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background:none
                rgb(255,255,255)"><span>XI. Empowerment</span></h2>
              <p style="margin:0.5em
0px;line-height:22.3999996185303px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">As
                the goal of this proposal is the empower our leaders to
                be able to take action on behalf of the organization, no
                Board vote is necessary for any initiative of the
                committee provided that the following is true:</p>
              <p style="margin:0.5em
0px;line-height:22.3999996185303px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">1)
                The action is within the stated scope of the committee.</p>
              <p style="margin:0.5em
0px;line-height:22.3999996185303px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">2)
                If money is required, the action follows the guidelines
                set forth in the Community Engagement Funding document.</p>
              <p style="margin:0.5em
0px;line-height:22.3999996185303px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">3)
                No contracts are being executed by the committee on
                behalf of the OWASP Foundation.</p>
              <p style="margin:0.5em
0px;line-height:22.3999996185303px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">4)
                The action is in line with the OWASP Foundation Code of
                Ethics and is pursuant to OWASP’s mission.</p>
              <p style="margin:0.5em
0px;line-height:22.3999996185303px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">If
                any of these is not true, then the OWASP Board of
                Directors should be consulted for approval prior to the
                committees execution.</p>
              <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"> <br>
                  <br>
                  - Jim</font></span>
              <div>
                <div class="h5"><br>
                  <br>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div>Jim,</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      I found something very interesting we have not
                      done and was written on that Sarah's email
                      regarding committees:
                      <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.owasp.org/pipermail/owasp-leaders/2014-May/011794.html"
                          style="font-size:13px" target="_blank">http://lists.owasp.org/pipermail/owasp-leaders/2014-May/011794.html</a><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>Proposals brought forward from the committees should be voted upon by the
community </b>(or community leadership). The <u>community decision</u> should be
considered valid. Implementing a process for a trial period of 6 months to
a year would be sufficient to determine if it was beneficial for the
organization. This also reinstates the sense of ownership the community has
in the organisation.</pre>
                        <pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></pre>
                        <pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">That counts for all the initiatives, from project summits to Summers and Winters of code...</font>
</pre>
                        <pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">We have not implemented to allow the community to vote. </span></pre>
                        <pre><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000000"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">I agree about your comments about projects, but I will provide you a better example. There are projects that can participate and are invited to Conferences and due to money issues cannot assist to more of them. Or the recent issue with the Developer guide. You need to pay a technical editor and designer to get the project ready. </span></font></font></pre>
                        <pre><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#000000"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">Some Educational initiatives are harder to implement and might require </span></font></font><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">crowd funding. It is about looking for better structure and ways to support and promote projects for educational initiatives. </span></font></pre>
                        <pre><span style="white-space:pre-wrap;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Keep in mind that the motive of this email is about community vote and surveys to gather what does the community want.</span>
</pre>
                        <pre><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">Subject: "</span></font><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Request - Survey - Implementation process on higher decisions". </span></pre>
                        <pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Regards</span></pre>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at
                        9:58 PM, Jim Manico <span dir="ltr"><<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:jim.manico@owasp.org"
                            target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jim.manico@owasp.org">jim.manico@owasp.org</a></a>></span>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex"><span><br>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                              #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Now
                              seriously.Why can these funds not  be
                              moved?<br>
                            </blockquote>
                          </span> We made a promise in 2009, Tom sent
                          those exact links out to to leaders earlier
                          today.<span><br>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                              #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> What are the
                              actual restrictions for chapters to use
                              them?<br>
                            </blockquote>
                          </span> We've gone over that many times in the
                          last few weeks, I'll send you those resources
                          offline. The staff is actively trying to
                          educate and encourage chapters to spend their
                          resources on the OWASP mission.
                          <div>
                            <div><br>
                              <br>
                              -- <br>
                              Jim Manico<br>
                              Global Board Member<br>
                              OWASP Foundation<br>
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="https://www.owasp.org"
                                rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org</a><br>
                              Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!<br>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <br>
                  <pre cols="72">-- 
Jim Manico
Global Board Member
OWASP Foundation
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.owasp.org" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org</a>
Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!</pre>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">
</pre>
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