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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Jerry, <br>
      <br>
      hm. I can see some good reasons where I would like to pay for some
      speaker's travel expenses. <br>
      <br>
      (before starting: up to this date, I was in the fortunate position
      that I never needed to ask for money from OWASP for travel in my
      function as board member or speaker. And I think if other funding
      is available to a person, that should be used first and leave more
      money for the foundation's work.)<br>
      <br>
      Having said that, I very much think that this situation can be
      very different for other speakers and paying for a regional flight
      or hotel can be a massive burden on a speaker's holiday budget.
      And many speakers don't have company expense budgets and could not
      afford to do this basically using their year holiday budgets to
      speak at an OWASP conference - even though OWASP is great fun, the
      spouses may not agree that this justifies spending all their
      holiday money on OWASP without them. <br>
      <br>
      Some examples where I think it is very good that OWASP can pay
      speaker travel (flight and/or hotel): <br>
      - chapters inviting specific speakers to present at their chapter
      event about topics that are exciting for their community<br>
      - AppSec conferences: frankly quite a few of external keynote
      speakers will require travel expenses to be paid. Otherwise they
      would have to pay out of their private pocket and not come. <br>
      - OWASP tours where we help bring speakers from within a region to
      different chapters to present OWASP topics there and exchange
      ideas<br>
      - allow chapter leaders and project leaders to attend chapter and
      project workshops (e.g. at AppSec conferences) to help further
      improve their chapters and projects. <br>
      <br>
      IMHO, these are good reasons to support travel for speakers if
      necessary and if it can be afforded by the hosting chapter. <br>
      <br>
      Just my 2cents. <br>
      <br>
      Best wishes, Tobias<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 11/09/14 22:22, Jerry Hoff wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:75C9FBD3-3BC3-4E49-B154-09B1B7C3EC32@owasp.org"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
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      <div>I agree completely - I'm very much against OWASP paying for
        anyone's travel - speaker, board members, guests (obviously
        excluding staff) .... </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Absolutely everyone should pay their own travel IMO. The
        benefit is the opportunity is to speak in front of the OWASP
        audience. <br>
        <br>
        Can anyone give a good reason why OWASP pays for some member's
        travel expenses?<br>
        <br>
        --
        <div>Jerry Hoff</div>
        <div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jerry@owasp.com">jerry@owasp.com</a></div>
        <div>@jerryhoff</div>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        On Sep 11, 2014, at 14:11, johanna curiel curiel <<a
          moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:johanna.curiel@owasp.org">johanna.curiel@owasp.org</a>>
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <div dir="ltr">Defcon has a very different approach
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Entree USD 220,-</div>
            <div>Speakers pay their own cost I think</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>But why are they so darn good? Better than BH with all
              due respect. BH entree is between 1800-2500 for the
              briefings of 2 days</div>
            <div>and Defcon is 4 days!</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Defcon is very cool...(and cost 10x less but you get
              10x fun)</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 5:00 PM,
              Eoin Keary <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:eoin.keary@owasp.org" target="_blank">eoin.keary@owasp.org</a>></span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div dir="auto">
                  <div>Given the foundation has 300k in the bank I don't
                    see why we can't cast the net wider to include more
                    speakers. It helps the foundations mission to spread
                    the word and have high quality speakers at our
                    events.</div>
                  <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
                      <div><br>
                        <br>
                        Eoin Keary
                        <div>Owasp Global Board</div>
                        <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="tel:%2B353%2087%20977%202988"
                            value="+353879772988" target="_blank">+353
                            87 977 2988</a></div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </font></span>
                  <div>
                    <div class="h5">
                      <div><br>
                        On 11 Sep 2014, at 21:54, Michael Coates <<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:michael.coates@owasp.org"
                          target="_blank">michael.coates@owasp.org</a>>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div>
                          <div dir="ltr">Steven,
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Hope all is well and it will be great
                              to catch up in Denver.<br>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>I always enjoy new ideas and
                                discussion. I have a few questions about
                                your idea. </div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>1. Do we have any indication that
                                quality speakers aren't applying because
                                travel / hotel is not covered?  </div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>2. Do you think the quality of
                                speakers would increase if travel costs
                                were covered?</div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>3. How many of the speakers do you
                                think are paying for their travel out of
                                pocket versus having it covered as a
                                business expense?<br>
                              </div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>4. Would you support an increase in
                                ticket prices to cover the costs of
                                speakers? If not, where would you
                                suggest the costs be covered?</div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>A bit of cost planning:</div>
                              <div>AppSecUSA has 79 people listed on the
                                speakers tab.  Let's assume travel as
                                $900 per person ($500 airfare + 2 nights
                                hotel at $200 night). That comes out to
                                $71,000.</div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>Cost increase per attendee:</div>
                              <div>500 attendees +$142 per ticket</div>
                              <div>1000 attendees +$71 per ticket</div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
                              <div>
                                <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                  --<br>
                                  Michael Coates
                                  <div>Chairman, OWASP Board<br>
                                    @_mwc<br>
                                    <br>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                              <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 11,
                                2014 at 1:11 PM, Steven van der Baan <span
                                  dir="ltr"><<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:steven.van.der.baan@owasp.org"
                                    target="_blank">steven.van.der.baan@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                wrote:<br>
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                  style="margin:0 0 0
                                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                  solid;padding-left:1ex">hi Leaders,<br>
                                  <br>
                                  I've got a question for you all and it
                                  is regarding speakers at Appsec<br>
                                  conferences.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  I am of the opinion that we should
                                  cover expenses for speakers that are<br>
                                  presenting at Appsec conferences. At
                                  the moment this is not the case and<br>
                                  I truly believe that this is wrong. I
                                  think that if OWASP wants the<br>
                                  AppSec conferences to grow in size, we
                                  should also give the speakers<br>
                                  more than just an entrance ticket. I
                                  would like to see that also some of<br>
                                  the expenses are covered. This is
                                  currently only done for the keynote<br>
                                  speakers. I agree that the keynote
                                  speakers should be handled more<br>
                                  special, but they are only the 'cherry
                                  on the cake'. It's the speakers<br>
                                  that 'make the cake' and without good
                                  speakers you will have a lousy cake.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  I know that conferences like HitB and
                                  BlackHat/Defcon provide hotel<br>
                                  expenses next to the entrance fee
                                  (with BH and Defcon you can choose<br>
                                  between more badges or money). And
                                  they do get a large number of<br>
                                  attendees, especially due to the
                                  numbers and quality of their speakers.<br>
                                  This is what I would like to see with
                                  the OWASP Appsec conferences as<br>
                                  well. Being known for outstanding
                                  speakers and at the same time<br>
                                  attracting more attendees. Reflecting
                                  back at taking part in organising<br>
                                  Appsec EU 2014, the attendee numbers
                                  where really low for a long time<br>
                                  (below 100 up to two weeks before the
                                  conference). Thought it did pick<br>
                                  up in the last two weeks, i firmly
                                  believe that these numbers could<br>
                                  easily have been doubled if we take
                                  more care of our speakers.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  I know that I have a personal stake in
                                  this as I'm one of the speakers<br>
                                  at Appsec USA. But it should not only
                                  be an honour to speak at an OWASP<br>
                                  conference, we as OWASP should
                                  actively support this knowledge
                                  sharing<br>
                                  by stimulating speakers and meet them
                                  with their expenses and take care<br>
                                  of the hotel for them. I am aware that
                                  in the current model the Appsec<br>
                                  conferences are used to generate
                                  revenue for the foundation, but I am a<br>
                                  firm believer that you first have to
                                  spend money to make money: to<br>
                                  invest into the speakers, which in
                                  turn will attract more attendees and<br>
                                  therefore generate more income.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  Below are two tweets that I quickly
                                  found searching online about this.<br>
                                  These tweets are from non OWASP
                                  members<br>
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="https://twitter.com/MatiasKatz/status/323490014136791041"
                                    target="_blank">https://twitter.com/MatiasKatz/status/323490014136791041</a><br>
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="https://twitter.com/notsosecure/status/478912487182827520"
                                    target="_blank">https://twitter.com/notsosecure/status/478912487182827520</a><br>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  I'd love to see this change happen.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  Steven.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                  OWASP-Leaders mailing list<br>
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                                    href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org"
                                    target="_blank">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a><br>
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders"
                                    target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a><br>
                                </blockquote>
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                              <br>
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                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
                          <span>OWASP-Leaders mailing list</span><br>
                          <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org"
                              target="_blank">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a></span><br>
                          <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders"
                              target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a></span><br>
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                <br>
                _______________________________________________<br>
                OWASP-Leaders mailing list<br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a><br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders"
                  target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a><br>
                <br>
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            <br>
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      </blockquote>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
          <span>OWASP-Leaders mailing list</span><br>
          <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a></span><br>
          <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a></span><br>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OWASP-Leaders mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a>
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</pre>
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