[Owasp-leaders] don't allow explicit discrimination 🙏🏿 (women only)

Timur 'x' Khrotko [owasp] timur at owasp.org
Tue Mar 19 18:13:34 UTC 2019

Bil, thank you for the objective view on the case and the answer which
exactly matches my request/issue!

Avi, Vandana, could you please consider the change of the condition to
'women-focused' as Abhi and Bil suggested? And also "making it clear in the
description that it's being offered by WIA" as a bonus (to indicate that
the training was not part of the CfT competition), please!

Please also note that most of the below discussion was a detour from the
original issue which is the 'women only' condition/label. I got my takeaway
regarding the broader topic of attracting more women to participate at the
secdev training events. I will also raise separately the issue of
regulating the announcement of free trainings offered for whatever reasons
in parallel with the CfT. And I would formulate the need to attract more
developers by targeting specific groups or strata.


On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 6:46 PM Bil Corry <bil.corry at owasp.org> wrote:

> Thank you Timur for raising this issue.  This training is being offered by
> the Women in AppSec (WIA) Committee, which is officially charted by OWASP
> to "develop leadership, promote active membership and participation, and
> contributions by women in application security professional communities,
> globally and locally."
> The training itself conforms within their charter, however, it should
> probably be labeled as "Women Focused" rather than "Woman Only" as both
> Vandana and Avi have said men can sign up for it.  I'd also suggest making
> it clear in the description that it's being offered by WIA.
> Best regards,
> - Bil
> On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 9:32 PM Timur 'x' Khrotko [owasp] <timur at owasp.org>
> wrote:
>> Dear Board, dear Josh,
>> please modify the conditions of the Burp/ZAP training announced at Appsec
>> Global in Tel Aviv. The "women only" condition is gender discriminatory,
>> that is just plainly discriminatory and as such contradicts the faith and
>> probably the policies of OWASP. Also it contradicted the training review
>> policy which promised to make choices solely on professional grounds.
>> Dear all,
>> I understand the idea behind it and I support the WIA initiative but
>> there must be common sense limits. You shouldn't encourage black only
>> tailor shops in your holy fight with racially discriminatory tailor shops.
>> There're options to keep the idea, maybe make the training free for WIA
>> members -- that would be against my taste still but maybe something
>> tolerable. Or let WIA invent a clever and tasteful solution for the
>> conditions of a free training to engage female devs in secdev.
>> As far as I know this isn't an issue with the Tel Aviv organisers as this
>> training was nested from above. And also this women only thing already
>> happened at one of the previous conferences, in the US probably.
>> Consider that when one inserts trainings for political reasons then
>> similar trainings which could compete on professional grounds get
>> automatically excluded. So by promoting causes which are not exactly the
>> core causes OWASP exists for one harms the professional impartiality/etc.
>> Satirical sidenote: I'm not afraid of being tagged as trumpist since I'm
>> already a Russian troll 😀 And during the Samantha-gate I already accepted
>> highbrow American comments that we don't know modern social/moral norms at
>> this side of the world.
>> Or would it be a good move next time to announce a 'Muslims only', 'Jews
>> only', 'childfree only' or a 'gay only' training next time? (I subscribe to
>> support all these causes and peoples sometimes discriminated -- even in my
>> OWASP hat but not in a discriminatory way.)
>> Your thoughts?
>> Current reference: https://telaviv.appsecglobal.org/registration/
>> Timur
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