[Owasp-leaders] don't allow explicit discrimination 🙏🏿 (women only)
Timur 'x' Khrotko [owasp]
timur at owasp.org
Mon Mar 18 11:00:21 UTC 2019
Paweł, thanks for the notes!
I disagree at one particular point:
You wouldn't announce a 'Poles only' workshop at Confidence, however
announcing one workshop in Polish at an international conference would be
Also let me quite (with permission) one of our Polish friends commenting on
There seems to be a rather simple solution to this particular issue.
Instead of labeling it as 'women only', it could maybe be stated that the
target audience is women (junior/inexperienced) but anyone could come.
Also I think the woman running this training is actually working AGAINST
stated goal. The way to include women in the community is to integrate
not close them in women-only groups, as this purpotes their separation and
isolation. Unless of course the real goal is different from the stated
On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 at 22:44, Paweł Krawczyk <pawel.krawczyk at hush.com>
> On 17/03/2019 05:35, Prashant Kv wrote:
> > https://www.dayofshecurity.com/
> > https://girlswhocode.com/
> > Above initiatives are started in USA . Don’t tell me problem is there
> > only in countries like India. I am part of San Francisco Bay Area
> > Owasp chapter and I hardly see women boldly asking questions. Problem
> > is worldwide.
> > For all the talk, Usa never ever had a women president and Israel had
> > one lady prime minister. India and all its neighboring countries has
> > had lady head of states in past.
> Many problems are present out there and one of them is non-uniform
> distribution of problems and their perception across the world. One of
> the problems most predominant in the US seems to be -- apart form
> widespread gender inequality apparently -- deficit of sensitivity to
> other cultures and values of various parts of the world.
> I don't think "women only" events are discriminating on their own, as I
> believe attendees of any event generally have a right to restrict it to
> any group their prefer (and you explained the motive convincingly -
> women feel unwelcome to ask basic questions). I understand that it does
> look unfair when, on an event composed of series of lectures and
> workshops which are accessible to anybody just *one* of them is
> restricted to a particular group. That simply does look discriminating
> and the argument that "we won't kick any male if he comes" makes it even
> more disturbing. It's precisely the same patronizing behaviour that
> everyone is trying to suppress in males.
> And if we're reaching for our personal experiences as arguments, I have
> presented or attended numerous OWASP events in Poland, Russia and
> Ukraine, and women *there* were never shy to ask questions, whatever
> basic, and nobody made them feel unwelcome. So while your argument about
> people being ridiculed for asking non-31337 questions is probably
> entirely valid *in your experience*, one explanation may be that it's a
> general feature of the particular culture on the place you're living
> rather than a global phenomenon, and IT communities in other areas may
> be more egalitarian and inclusive (which is my experience). In
> consequence, the methods of mitigating them that are widely accepted in
> your are may not be understood to the same extent in other parts of the
> Just as the discussion demonstrates.
> Paweł Krawczyk
> +44 7879 180015
> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> This message may contain confidential information - you should handle it
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