[Owasp-leaders] don't allow explicit discrimination 🙏🏿 (women only)

Martín Villalba martin.villalba at owasp.org
Fri Mar 15 06:12:46 UTC 2019


Being a supporter of minority groups, I sometimes struggle myself to draw
the line between supporting minority groups vs. not discriminating majority
groups.  I think this one may be one of those cases for you Timur.  It
should be clear to all of us that the intent of this women-only training is
not discrimination of other genders, but only supporting and encouraging
women in AppSec by giving them a space where they can feel more comfortable
than they usually do in a male-dominated environment (same idea Prashant
mentioned).

A while ago Vandana sent an email explaining this very clearly but
unfortunately I couldn't find it just now.  She could share her thoughts
again in this thread, if she feels like doing so (maybe just a copy paste
from that older email).

Perhaps this women-only training would warrant a very brief explanation
(somewhere in the conference page) as of why OWASP makes the choice to have
a women-only event.  This could even bring awareness to more people and
hopefully help build towards gender equality.

Cheers,
Martín.


On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 10:58 PM Prashant Kv <kvprashant at owasp.org> wrote:

> Let’s not politicize everything.
>
>  Feedback I have received from many girls is, InfoSec trainings tend to be
> male dominated and they feel unwelcomed to ask basic questions. They feel
> They are often rediculed for asking basic questions. The motive of women
> only training is not to exclude men but to give a closer and more emphatic
> learning environment for women. We did similar trainings in India and
> ladies have found it extremely useful. Ladies could get their doubts
> clarified without been afraid of rediculed or labeled.
>
> Regards
> Prashant
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 14, 2019, Timur 'x' Khrotko [owasp] <timur at owasp.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Board, dear Josh,
>>
>> please modify the conditions of the Burp/ZAP training announced at Appsec
>> Global in Tel Aviv. The "women only" condition is gender discriminatory,
>> that is just plainly discriminatory and as such contradicts the faith and
>> probably the policies of OWASP. Also it contradicted the training review
>> policy which promised to make choices solely on professional grounds.
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I understand the idea behind it and I support the WIA initiative but
>> there must be common sense limits. You shouldn't encourage black only
>> tailor shops in your holy fight with racially discriminatory tailor shops.
>>
>> There're options to keep the idea, maybe make the training free for WIA
>> members -- that would be against my taste still but maybe something
>> tolerable. Or let WIA invent a clever and tasteful solution for the
>> conditions of a free training to engage female devs in secdev.
>>
>> As far as I know this isn't an issue with the Tel Aviv organisers as this
>> training was nested from above. And also this women only thing already
>> happened at one of the previous conferences, in the US probably.
>>
>> Consider that when one inserts trainings for political reasons then
>> similar trainings which could compete on professional grounds get
>> automatically excluded. So by promoting causes which are not exactly the
>> core causes OWASP exists for one harms the professional impartiality/etc.
>>
>> Satirical sidenote: I'm not afraid of being tagged as trumpist since I'm
>> already a Russian troll 😀 And during the Samantha-gate I already accepted
>> highbrow American comments that we don't know modern social/moral norms at
>> this side of the world.
>>
>> Or would it be a good move next time to announce a 'Muslims only', 'Jews
>> only', 'childfree only' or a 'gay only' training next time? (I subscribe to
>> support all these causes and peoples sometimes discriminated -- even in my
>> OWASP hat but not in a discriminatory way.)
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> Current reference: https://telaviv.appsecglobal.org/registration/
>>
>> Timur
>>
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