[Owasp-leaders] Barracuda

OWASP LOS ANGELES richard.greenberg at owasp.org
Thu Feb 14 22:11:31 UTC 2019


Thanks!

Richard Greenberg, CISSP
OWASP Global Board of Directors
President, OWASP Los Angeles
www.owaspla.org
President, ISSA Los Angeles www.issala.org
ISSA Honor Roll and Fellow
LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardagreenberg
(424) 307-4440



On Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 2:02 PM Aric K. Perminter <aperminter at lynxtp.com>
wrote:

> Thank you for the warm welcome, Richard! I will be in LA the first week of
> March, following my annual trip to RSA.  I’ll create a separate thread to
> see if we can coordinate a meetup, even if briefly over coffee. I’d like to
> understand how best we can (proactively) engage and support the community.
>
> Kelly, please work with Chelsea Levesque to coordinate schedules.  Thank
> you in advance.
>
> -Aric
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* OWASP LOS ANGELES <richard.greenberg at owasp.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2019 4:55 PM
> *To:* Aric K. Perminter; Kelly Santalucia
> *Cc:* OWASP-Global-BOD; OWASP Global BOD List;
> owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org; Dimitri Perminter; Tony Beaman
> *Subject:* Re: [Owasp-leaders] Barracuda
>
> Thanks very much, Aric! We welcome community and business partnerships. I
> am looping in Kelly Santalucia, who can cintinue the dialogue with you
> regarding sponsorship.
>
> Richard Greenberg, CISSP
> OWASP Global Board of Directors
> President, OWASP Los Angeles
> www.owaspla.org
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.owaspla.org&c=E,1,j7jc6VtDwvIgo-maQYyw5JUnuUyBf-PPsCfP_C9DBlLjwwx0CnfTaEm4qehN0JNaN3Vr52tb8RRe_DyNFLMDHQlhPG_o6mQCOElNeSyfvQZVuKlE3DmzVHra&typo=1>
> President, ISSA Los Angeles www.issala.org
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.issala.org&c=E,1,OVw0NE4Aj1xhnt8P_Zw5RjRAvYsKRkx7GfvI3oFhiQCrGz_RoeEyE321622Yrb3t-uHK-YJbWBYlSmRxaPW5Yaj-iDVFuYNb9LKMKitVo85kcxeU&typo=1>
> ISSA Honor Roll and Fellow
> LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardagreenberg
> (424) 307-4440
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 11:04 AM Aric K. Perminter <aperminter at lynxtp.com>
> wrote:
>
>> [not a sales pitch, trying to help where possible]
>>
>> Hi Richard, I recently got involved with a boutique firm based in
>> Oakland, CA named Hacking Solutions.  I have copied Dimitri Perminter, COO,
>> and Tony Beaman, CEO, herein who is interested in learning about how to get
>> involved (I.e., sponsor) OWASP.  We’d like to show our support and
>> committement to the OWASP Community.
>>
>> Aric K. Perminter
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* owasp-leaders-bounces+ap=lynxtp.com at lists.owasp.org
>> <owasp-leaders-bounces+ap=lynxtp.com at lists.owasp.org> on behalf of OWASP
>> LOS ANGELES <richard.greenberg at owasp.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2019 1:51:49 PM
>> *To:* Matt Tesauro
>> *Cc:* Dirk Wetter; OWASP-Global-BOD; OWASP Board List;
>> owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Owasp-leaders] Barracuda
>>
>> Thanks Matt. You always provide a very thorough response.
>>
>> We need to move away from hosting and embrace the cloud. We also should
>> persue Google. Slack has its place, but is no replacement for Mailman.
>>
>> Richard Greenberg, CISSP
>> OWASP Global Board of Directors
>> President, OWASP Los Angeles
>> www.owaspla.org
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.owaspla.org&c=E,1,qZ1TSfjLjagRI5K56xOfr2bXePpQuV4PiC5Gqqc_Lxg0Oc_i_s4ISFfwhcsvrOkI1TLXsJhY-8SSeSMjiZIor-pkkpU1Rb6iedRd243aSKtabwEG_C0V&typo=1>
>> President, ISSA Los Angeles www.issala.org
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.issala.org&c=E,1,uM3fa_UFyCff93eyhaLmBxQ-b7ZX6vr37lHocsiv9EQ06EZGOYvnpH7FyVX921ilrXTofvNo-yPfZm1wKBjAk4K_d8tT3AZFCwnoYTCmDMyogAEEP3cif9Rm&typo=1>
>> ISSA Honor Roll and Fellow
>> LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardagreenberg
>> (424) 307-4440
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 1:03 PM Matt Tesauro <matt.tesauro at owasp.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dirk,
>>
>> Please don't conflate the reason (old OS & software) why recovering from
>> the recent issue was problematic with the reasons to retire Mailman.
>>
>> Yes, we could move to a more recent LTS version of Ubuntu and continue to
>> run Mailman 2.x largely the same as it is today.  However, this won't
>> address the reasons why  Mailman should be retired.  Those include:
>>
>>    - Mailman sends passwords in the clear via email and requires a
>>    shared password if 2+ people are list owners - hardly security best practice
>>    - Site Admin of Mailman is via a single shared admin password,
>>    meaning it's virtually impossible to find out who did what from an
>>    admin/staff perspective
>>    - This has been causing repeated angst in the community for years -
>>    enough that I wrote about it in 2013 so I could just send a link when it
>>    popped up again.
>>    https://www.owasp.org/index.php/About_Mailman_at_OWASP
>>    <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.owasp.org%2findex.php%2fAbout_Mailman_at_OWASP&c=E,1,c7pEbDXXXysO0ILA828_7IGOp2pOHGVFCCUFgzfHsno4ecd9X_MUgDiDkwpcAgiheqW4ehOJSk6hKgZvxtfeBguV-7x9Xr5SKqsjSdcNNb2Maw,,&typo=1>
>>    - The "old guard' of OWASP needs to realize that using Mailman makes
>>    OWASP look completely out of touch with the next generation of AppSec
>>    people.  Ask a 20-something about mail lists and they'll give you a blank
>>    look. I include myself in that "old guard" - I just happen to be working
>>    with a Univ student with my project and it's been enlightening to hear what
>>    his age group thinks of mail lists and IT infrastructure in general.
>>       - I'm sorry 'old guard" - what's really important is getting new,
>>       young people involved in our community - and that means change and meeting
>>       them were*they* participate on the Internet.  I get that I'm going
>>       to be changing right with the rest of you since I'm definitely not 20 years
>>       old anymore.
>>    - OWASP's mission is to make AppSec visible.  Considering the very
>>    small staff, running any server, that we can replace with an external
>>    service offering, removes the sys admin burden from staff and actually
>>    helps us in our mission.  Otherwise, we spend staff time on things that
>>    aren't core to our mission.  This is called Opportunity Cost
>>    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost> in Economics and the
>>    opportunity cost of running any IT service that requires hands-on admin
>>    work by staff is too high.
>>    - If you're tempted to chime in with "Let volunteers run it", I'd say
>>    two things:
>>       - Re-read that previous bullet and switch "staff" for "volunteer"
>>       - the reason is still valid.  Volunteers should help on the mission not
>>       administrivia.
>>       - In the 10+ years I've been around OWASP, I've seen volunteer run
>>       things go one of two ways:
>>          - Run for a while, get forgotten and either go stale or get
>>          hacked (yeah, that's happened in the past)
>>          - Run for a while, then life changes for the volunteer(s) and
>>          it gets handed off to staff.  This happened with Slack, this happened with
>>          hosting the AppSec EU conference sites.  So even this positive outcome only
>>          delays a return to managing IT systems
>>       - Mailman at OWASP may hold a warm nostalgic feeling for people
>>    that have bean around a while but its not what it used to be
>>       - We have far more conversations happening on Slack today then we
>>       do Mailman
>>       - During restoring the current service, I looked at which lists
>>       had received any email (legit or SPAM) in the last calendar year -*~80%
>>       of the existing lists had not emails to them in the past year*.
>>       Mailman might be serving some of our community decently well but it's a
>>       ever shrinking number.  The number are:
>>          - 875 (previous) Total lists
>>          - 181 lists with any sort of email in the last calendar year
>>          (now the current total lists)
>>          - 693 lists with no email for 1+ years
>>       - Considering the recent vocal complaints about how unreliable
>>    email sent to the lists, it's surprising to see the same people argue for
>>    keeping this 'unreliable' service up and running
>>    - Barracuda;s licensing (the anti-SPAM gateway upstream of Mailman)
>>    has expired and Barracuda has not renewed the donation of those services.
>>    I'm honestly surprised every time I can still log into their web control
>>    panel - apparently they've not turned off our account (yet) but could at
>>    any time.  Rough numbers show 2/3rds of inbound email to Mailman is SPAM.
>>    I'd love to hand that problem off to Google or Discourse rather then spend
>>    staff time (and money) as we do currently.  There's also no way I'd suggest
>>    either running email without SPAM filtering or having staff spend time
>>    running it themselves.
>>
>> Tangential reason why retiring Mailman is my current focus include:
>>
>>    - The fact that the current server is woefully out of date and setup
>>    by someone else is a, to be nice, very "creative" fashion
>>    - Rack is no longer donating their cloud services so we're paying a
>>    premium to keep that server hosted there. I've been actively migrating
>>    servers from Rackspace and this is the next one on my list.
>>
>> For options instead of Mailman:
>>
>> (1) Timur is correct, we get Google Groups for $0 cost as part of the G
>> Suite for Charities package/donation from Google.  We have to spend $0 and
>> 0 time doing sys admin work on Google Groups.
>>
>> (2) We also get a year of Discourse SaaS for ~7 months of Mailman hosting
>> costs and we spend 0 time spent doing sys admin work.  Plus, Harold has
>> already written some automation code against Discourse's REST API to make
>> things easier going forward.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> --
>> -- Matt Tesauro
>> *OWASP Foundation*
>> Director of Community and Operations
>> matt.tesauro at owasp.org
>>
>> Consider giving back, and supporting the open source community by
>> becoming a member
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.owasp.org%2findex.php%2fMembership&c=E,1,Zy9H96ZgKCBnEFBrUKu1v-QiXfJiKCb37qBzr2nJ7H_HzDKsoCTvb7-Nx1ia299x9FI-RAkItLVOTpvCkaQx3pe7M7fQm2qWocLiPvCLE9t9L5cLF4Tx6K4,&typo=1> or
>> making a donation
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.owasp.org%2findex.php%2fDonate&c=E,1,sUnOSvINjz2LEPstqaC-wWLYjMFEbnzgjUCDHnWy_si5fbgtzvAAdWwpm9rSFsJN9DmRI70CMNb-q0tqSK9pk_W02v8UzQ5df-oDkqADiwAc&typo=1>
>>  today!
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 1:22 PM Timur 'x' Khrotko [owasp] <
>> timur at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>> Dirk, darling, I may be totally wrong and superficial, correct me. Imo
>> there are several aspects of the situation, some actionable.
>>
>> 0) In what modern group communication format could the lists type of
>> exchange continue. My understanding is that mailing list remains.
>>
>> a) For the further operation the mailing list fictionally of the Gsuite
>> we use here is an organic option -imo, probably. And is a way more modern
>> solution ops-wise than anything paas-based.
>>
>> b) For the archive of the mailing list - you guys know the options better.
>>
>> c) Criticism regarding the ages old os wasn't my topic. And I rather
>> would like to thank Matt for his mitigating the critical situation!
>>
>> timur
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 19:16, Dirk Wetter <dirk at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Timur,
>>
>> what are you talking about?
>>
>> We're running a 9year old OS out of support for five years -- exposed
>> in the internet -- and this should be a reason to blame the SW ??
>>
>> As indicated: It should be a task for half a day or less to sync all the
>> files
>> from mailman to a modern Ubuntu or Debian system.
>>
>>
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>> On 13.02.19 18:23, Timur 'x' Khrotko [owasp] wrote:
>> > * Matt already suggested to move to Google groups which is part of the
>> gsuite if my
>> > understanding is correct.
>> >
>> > On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 18:21, Frank Catucci <frank.catucci at owasp.org
>> > <mailto:frank.catucci at owasp.org>> wrote:
>> >
>> >     Matt, et al.,
>> >
>> >     Can we (OWASP leaders, project leaders, etc.) not have a modern
>> email server implemented to
>> >     run @owasp.org
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fowasp.org&c=E,1,RIbRmq6mfE2NvEtjKtaUP3Tpcze2ujLt1o42P55SIUmtosTQ7HqjolLraJUGNtmUrgdnCIA_N9P6OsYwChQxHQpqCr7XmCid47krqcVPjlyicA,,&typo=1>
>> <http://owasp.org
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fowasp.org&c=E,1,SHToGV_ewmw1kUF_Nnuw43MMLf67kacXog5svO11kLb6TPzGnr-pndjgs-y1SU3_ue0kjWLVWX-Wr3umLbv_9853MOZrr7Y2nj6lDOSioCoXFJoSYBBGcw,,&typo=1>>
>> email? Is that not a reasonable ask of OWASP and OWASP
>> >     staff? Am I missing something here? This sounds like a very
>> reasonable and actionable
>> >     request to me...
>> >
>> >     Regards,
>> >
>> >     Frank
>> >
>> >
>> >     On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 4:35 PM Matt Tesauro <
>> matt.tesauro at owasp.org
>> >     <mailto:matt.tesauro at owasp.org>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >         On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 4:03 AM Dirk Wetter <dirk at owasp.org
>> <mailto:dirk at owasp.org>> wrote:
>> >
>> >             Hi all / Matt,
>> >
>> >             short update, see below. This time our germany list seems
>> unknown.
>> >
>> >
>> >         All of the lists were unknown for some time starting last night
>> (GMT -6) - not just
>> >         "our germany list".  The server that hosts mailman went down in
>> a spectacular fashion.
>> >         It took a while to get it back up but it's running again.
>> Items which complicated things:
>> >
>> >           * that server's been running on the same VM since 2013
>> >           * it's running an EOL/EOS OS (Ubuntu 10.04 - a 9 year old OS)
>> >           * Rack's support does not cover Mailman and we're running an
>> out of date version that
>> >             is a major release behind current (2.x vs 3.x)
>> >           * technically, Rack's support doesn't cover EOL/EOS OS'es but
>> they still helped us
>> >             get back online
>> >           * the OS is so old, Rack's monitoring and backup agents are
>> no longer supported nor
>> >             run on the OS
>> >           * the VM configuration and type used for that host is no
>> longer offered by Rackspace
>> >             causing complications which both caused the initial outage
>> and complicated the
>> >             restoring the server
>> >           * since monitoring is no longer supported for that server, no
>> alerts were sent when
>> >             it went down
>> >           * since the back agent can no longer run on a server that
>> old, the most recent
>> >             file-level backup is from July 17, 2017
>> >           * Full VM image backups were still in place and working.
>> However, restoring those
>> >             backups to different type and configuration of VM caused
>> issues that took working
>> >             with Rack's support team to get resolved.
>> >
>> >         Even with all those strikes against it, it's up and running
>> again.  Not too bad to have
>> >         one (regrettably long) outage in 6 years.
>> >
>> >         Props to the several people on Rack's support team that helped
>> me get the Mailman VM
>> >         back up and running as they were able to do the 'behind the
>> cloud'' work required to
>> >         get the VM working again.
>> >
>> >         The system you seem to love to hate, Barracuda, spooled all the
>> inbound email and that
>> >         is flowing again.  Once the retry period is over and that spool
>> is empty, things should
>> >         return to normal. For a while, delivery of emails that came in
>> during the outage may be
>> >         delayed a bit.  Barracuda, BTW, is also unlicensed and
>> continues to work without any
>> >         agreement in place.  Thanks to Barracuda for now cutting us off.
>> >
>> >         I also added a block volume to that VM to allow for a
>> file-level backup workaround as
>> >         an interim solution while we wind down Mailman and retire it
>> this year.
>> >
>> >             When do we get a reliable mail delivery system for our
>> lists?
>> >
>> >
>> >         Have you considered switching to Google Groups?  I'm pretty
>> sure that Google has a
>> >         slightly larger IT staff and budget than OWASP does.  There's
>> also discourse.owasp.org
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fdiscourse.owasp.org&c=E,1,pMxStnUPGoijjOlPwZQCsZi8XsaI4lpuSlpagts3Q-BBN522TN4T4xr_aZUwEpMAy7ssobq5f-nY9j-ZQTwzC27On6_b1BE_pnlmIN1ut1eODPpLhEkMUJA,&typo=1>
>> >         <http://discourse.owasp.org
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fdiscourse.owasp.org&c=E,1,lNkkoqe0NX-iisTwpdT4P-w7-8HKk1LzvcT-XcJGJVlw2Jgubxh7uazJ-R6craTQLGvLScDXGh3WOBoBLb95NWhcPC_CQUMbpvJ__pDsyTe_6vz91k9K&typo=1>>
>> which is a SaaS alternative we have in place as well.  Or
>> >         you could try the OWASP Slack instance too.
>> >
>> >         Thanks again for all your patience and understanding.
>> >
>> >         Cheers!
>> >
>> >         -- Matt Tesauro
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >             Dirk
>> >
>> >
>> >             -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> >             Subject:        Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
>> >             Date:   Tue, 12 Feb 2019 01:13:15 -0800 (PST)
>> >             From:   Mail Delivery Subsystem <
>> mailer-daemon at googlemail.com
>> >             <mailto:mailer-daemon at googlemail.com>>
>> >             To:     dirk at owasp.org <mailto:dirk at owasp.org>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >             Error Icon
>> >
>> >
>> >                 Address not found
>> >
>> >             Your message wasn't delivered to *
>> owasp-germany at lists.owasp.org
>> >             <mailto:owasp-germany at lists.owasp.org>* because the
>> address couldn't
>> >             be found, or is unable to receive mail.
>> >
>> >             The response from the remote server was:
>> >
>> >             550 permanent failure for one or more recipients (
>> owasp-germany at lists.owasp.org:550
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fowasp-germany%40lists.owasp.org%3a550&c=E,1,vE0EA49pzQD9H44oNoRCsIcgQjOafEDYiUubAvjXm60ekRQZKInlM5A4L1bII6VQAInKWPP1XR3WaQHhU6_tWihE3N_E1Qq7qDHhejgS_8g,&typo=1>
>> >             <http://[email protected]:550
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fowasp-germany%40lists.owasp.org%3a550&c=E,1,h1AtmrYDwYIThzprpgx9qB0cqowz0kfrxZmq34HcvXpP0MrqqtdVfXOTponPLaDYLKcMVU31HGRYkcC1XeTp6cJo2uoro3mul_MvPa1JWGAg&typo=1>>
>> 5.1.1
>> >             <owasp-germany at lists.owasp.org <mailto:
>> owasp-germany at lists.owasp.org>>... User unknown)
>> >
>> >
>> >             Attached Message Part
>> >
>> >             Reporting-MTA: dns; googlemail.com <http://googlemail.com>
>> >             Received-From-MTA: dns; dirk at owasp.org <mailto:
>> dirk at owasp.org>
>> >             Arrival-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 01:13:12 -0800 (PST)
>> >             X-Original-Message-ID: <
>> 2326a30c-8ecb-5ea2-65d6-87b549c23f6a at owasp.org
>> >             <mailto:2326a30c-8ecb-5ea2-65d6-87b549c23f6a at owasp.org>>
>> >
>> >             Final-Recipient: rfc822; owasp-germany at lists.owasp.org
>> >             <mailto:owasp-germany at lists.owasp.org>
>> >             Action: failed
>> >             Status: 5.0.0
>> >             Remote-MTA: dns; d15006a.ess.barracudanetworks.com
>> >             <http://d15006a.ess.barracudanetworks.com>.
>> (209.222.82.126, the
>> >              server for the domain lists.owasp.org
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2flists.owasp.org&c=E,1,OW593A8NbZdri-5RrlSO4kCCbe7kqz4rHCUtIrQu-SO07gnj8By7N7x9di-KP65BavIeX_mJPWCztcUN68MNNZogPfQj_UPRXX1Q-SCQNQ,,&typo=1>
>> <http://lists.owasp.org
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2flists.owasp.org&c=E,1,e4L9q7XRUHZFOxwfzWhcrOuXDOZcV-PPHVSvEvBnG4LrW6uiXG_bOk1XMBm8l2mLEvT4xM7SJxan9cXcnYFPWYyzYYeqC_A0K2Kl8E3uc1IEPA_dgak,&typo=1>
>> >.)
>> >             Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 permanent failure for one or
>> more recipients
>> >             (owasp-germany at lists.owasp.org:550
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fowasp-germany%40lists.owasp.org%3a550&c=E,1,0kguoCTvIHGHnDYWMnH9-b-_-OXBIgpL2iDlXoJtEHRdgKmXFrwpr7Yg6A003VDXfwwhdJbh2kl0b13IpQcHjMIMP5WXmTZmf4DmVrQxDHcHOffr&typo=1>
>> <http://[email protected]:550
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fowasp-germany%40lists.owasp.org%3a550&c=E,1,zEoP-AjT8TyaOqDOxvZvf8qsKtRyJl9wjOgNHs4hwKdM7uCz_FPp4Dj4s_LFSI7Q_F8iq0UX5T7_mi4WeypmYaQEYPMyN6HTApyouKu79ns,&typo=1>>
>> 5.1.1
>> >             <owasp-germany at lists.owasp.org <mailto:
>> owasp-germany at lists.owasp.org>>... User unknown)
>> >             Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 01:13:15 -0800 (PST)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >             --
>> >             OWASP Volunteer
>> >             Send me encrypted mails (Key ID 0xD0A74569)
>> >             @drwetter
>> >
>> >         _______________________________________________
>> >         OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>> >         OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org <mailto:
>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org>
>> >         https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flists.owasp.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fowasp-leaders&c=E,1,cZyafGIX5Qn42A1fga1okM2glDn_xACdxPsgaXEL9aJ_L3aXsF3Ajevo-nP9XLtk6EDol6uUpiglX6Tic13yqsFpTVk2ouQrRLZJZJ7E9WfXPF5niRE5-g,,&typo=1>
>> >
>> >
>> >     This message may contain confidential information - you should
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