[Owasp-leaders] Project Sponshorship, Support, and Finance

Larry Conklin larry.conklin at owasp.org
Fri Jan 26 14:43:42 UTC 2018


IMHO...This is a very serious. Even with staff leaving I can see a holdup
but not as long as Brian is talking about. We need our new ED Karen Staley
to take point on this issue. It's not just a money issue at the heart of
the issue is trust.

Larry Conklin


On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 7:49 AM, Brian Glas <brian.glas at owasp.org> wrote:

> Tiffany,
> Not sure you are the right person to address or not, if not, please
> forward to the appropriate staff member.
>
> I just checked the donation scorecard for the last time.
>
> It shows that it was updated on 12/31 and only one of my issues has been
> resolved in the last six weeks.
>
> While the Top 10 has now received the $5k donation from either AutoDesk or
> OWASP NOVA but the other $5k donation is *still* missing.
>
> The Top 10 project has still been charged $880 for a press release that
> had been previously approved to be paid for from a project communications
> fund.
>
> Also, the SAMM project is *still* missing the $5k that OWASP NOVA donated
> back in November 2017.
>
> I don’t understand why these issues have to be raised repeatedly, and
> problems like this are going to discourage future contributions and that is
> something that OWASP really doesn’t need.
>
> -Brian
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:51 AM, Brian Glas <brian.glas at owasp.org> wrote:
>
> Tiffany,
> To be honest, if you have to ask me for the details of $15k of donations
> to two projects, this clearly indicates there is something fundamentally
> broken.
>
> This is not a new phenomenon, and has been ongoing for a while now.
>
> Can we please have a review/root cause analysis and a detailed explanation
> of what has been going wrong and what has been done/will be implemented to
> address?
>
> Problems like this have happened repeatedly to multiple projects/chapters
> and I don’t see any clear communication on what happened and how it will be
> prevented in the future.
>
> Here is a list of items that I was referencing:
> 1. Autodesk contributed $5k to Top 10 project in Oct. They received a
> confirmation that their money was accepted, but it has never be listed for
> the Top 10 budget.
> 2. OWASP NoVA contributed $5k to Top 10 project that was approved on
> 11/15, but it has never be listed for the Top 10 budget.
> 3. OWASP NoVA contributed $5k to SAMM project that was approved on 11/15,
> but it has never be listed for the SAMM budget.
>
> In addition, the Top 10 project was charged $880 for a press release that
> had been previously approved to be paid for from a project communications
> fund.
>
> Based on a number of emails to the leaders list over the last several
> months, I don’t think I’m alone in dealing with issues like this.
> Right now I have no reason to trust any of the numbers in the google
> sheets that are made available to the project/chapter leads.
> I’m hoping that something can be done to help re-establish some trust in
> the processes.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2017, at 4:53 AM, Tiffany Long <tiffany.long at owasp.org> wrote:
>
> Brian, can you pinpoint the transactions it is missing for you?  Staff has
> been working with the accounting team to straighten this out, but it seems
> that each of us only have part of the answer.  We are trying to track down
> the issues and stamp them out one at a time.  Any specific information you
> have would be very helpful.
> Best,
> Tiffany
>
> Tiffany Long
> Community Manager
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Brian Glas <brian.glas at owasp.org> wrote:
>
>> Appreciate that Colin, unfortunately it’s missing several Oct/Nov
>> transactions, even with the date stamp of 11/30/17.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>>
>>
>> On Dec 13, 2017, at 3:14 PM, Colin Watson <colin.watson at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>> I stumbled across a document which lists financial transactions per
>> project. Look for the two links under the heading 'Fund Details' on:
>>
>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:OWASP_Project
>>
>> Last updated 30 Nov 2017. I don't think this has been highlighted to
>> project leaders though.
>>
>> Colin
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11 December 2017 at 19:47, Brian Glas <brian.glas at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Steve,
>>> You aren’t alone.
>>>
>>> I had an OWASP Chapter generously donate to two projects that I’m a
>>> co-lead on, and I still can’t confirm that the money has been transferred,
>>> hence I can’t publicly say thank you.
>>> He informed me that it was done over three weeks ago and I’ve asked
>>> about it and was told to check the donation spreadsheet. As of last week it
>>> hadn’t been updated since late Oct. This week it shows that it was updated
>>> on Nov 30, but the amounts I’m expecting aren’t in either projects budget
>>> line item. I’m not sure what to do at this point as I have zero faith in
>>> the accuracy of the numbers in the donation scorecard, but I have no other
>>> system to turn to.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 10, 2017, at 10:44 PM, Matt Tesauro <matt.tesauro at owasp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Steve,
>>>
>>> I'm no longer an OWASP employee but I have a pretty good understanding
>>> of how things work at OWASP so maybe I can help.
>>>
>>> First I need some info to help narrow down how this donation happened.
>>>
>>> (1) When you say:
>>> > The contribution was made using the same/similar mechanism the OWASP
>>> Defect Dojo project uses
>>> Do you mean PayPal?  If so, what form and importantly form variables did
>>> you use?  Look at this previous Leaders List post for more info on PayPal
>>> donations: http://lists.owasp.org/pipermail/owasp-leaders/20
>>> 17-November/018762.html
>>>
>>> (2) When you say:
>>> > I immediately reached out to OWASP accounting and a few other
>>> individuals
>>> Are these direct emails?  For OWASP accounting, do you mean '
>>> accounting at owasp.org'?  Were any of these made to the Contact Us form
>>> at https://www.tfaforms.com/308703?  Depending on how you reached out
>>> to OWASP, the visibility of that request may be restricted to a single
>>> person's inbox or co-mingled in a shared inbox used by the current
>>> accounting contractors.  If there's a failure in a particular means to
>>> contact OWASP staff, they'd need to know exactly how you reached out so
>>> that leaky method can get shored up.
>>>
>>> (3) When you say:
>>> > even though the vendor shared those details with me.
>>> Were those details shared in the times you reached out to OWASP?  One
>>> thing I learned while on staff is that things are more complex then I ever
>>> expected.  Multiple bank accounts in various currencies, 2 primary OWASP
>>> charities (OWASP Foundation and OWASP EU), PayPal, RegOnline, EventBrite,
>>> Meetup, the new AMS - these are just a few the methods funds might come
>>> into OWASP.  It's a consequence of rapid, organic growth and OWASP trying
>>> to meet the needs of a diverse community around the world.  Yes, the org
>>> probably could have done a better job providing a 'paved road' for
>>> donations but it's rather tricky to find a single funding mechanism that
>>> works reliably world-wide and for any currency.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to have this conversation here or you can reply directly to
>>> me.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> --
>>> -- Matt Tesauro
>>> OWASP AppSec Pipeline Lead
>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_AppSec_Pipeline
>>> OWASP WTE Project Lead
>>> *https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Web_Testing_Environment_Project
>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Web_Testing_Environment_Project>*
>>> http://AppSecLive.org <http://appseclive.org/> - Community and Download
>>> site
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Steve Springett <
>>> steve.springett at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> One of the primary reasons why I choose to participate in OWASP
>>>> projects as well as start my own is the support that the OWASP organization
>>>> provides including the wiki, appsec activities, and project sponsorship.
>>>>
>>>> The decision to have donated multiple open source projects to OWASP has
>>>> been tested over the past month without acceptable results.
>>>>
>>>> As many of you know, I have been heavily involved in Dependency-Check
>>>> since 2012 and started Dependency-Track in 2013. Dependency-Track v3 (to be
>>>> released in Q1 2018) will be the result of an entire year of work which has
>>>> resulted in the creation of several supporting and smaller projects and
>>>> many enhancements to Dependency-Check along the way.
>>>>
>>>> One of those smaller supporting projects is actually a big deal to a
>>>> specific vulnerability intelligence vendor. I am working to incorporate the
>>>> service the vendor provides as an optional feature into both
>>>> Dependency-Check and Dependency-Track in an effort to bring additional
>>>> capabilities to these projects on par with their commercial counterparts.
>>>> The vendor in turn, chose to sponsor Dependency-Track, an act that I
>>>> thought was very kind and very much appreciated that would actually benefit
>>>> both the Dependency-Check and Dependency-Track projects as a result.
>>>>
>>>> The vendor informed me on November 3rd they made the donation and I
>>>> immediately reached out to OWASP accounting and a few other individuals
>>>> throughout the course of November including communications on November 4th,
>>>> November 8th, November 10th, and November 28th. My purpose for this email
>>>> is NOT to point fingers at individuals. Relying on a single person in an
>>>> organization instead of an agreed upon process supported by leadership
>>>> makes OWASP no better than a recent CEO pointing fingers at a single person
>>>> for not applying a patch. It’s absurd and laughable. If relying on a single
>>>> person is strategic, that strategy is flawed and needs to be fixed.
>>>>
>>>> Five weeks after the vendor made the contribution to sponsor the
>>>> project and I still have not heard any details from OWASP about the nature
>>>> of the contribution - even though the vendor shared those details with me.
>>>>
>>>> Five weeks after the vendor made the contribution and I still am not
>>>> able to publicly thank them for their contribution.
>>>>
>>>> Five weeks after the vendor made the contribution and I’m still not
>>>> able to follow the guidelines outlined in
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Project_Sponsorship_Operatio
>>>> nal_Guidelines.
>>>>
>>>> Providing details on the contribution is required if OWASP expects to
>>>> have project sponsorship. Even an answer that the contribution was made in
>>>> error and was a general contribution instead would be an acceptable answer.
>>>> No answer at all is not acceptable and I question OWASP’s ability to
>>>> provide project sponsorship in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> The contribution was made using the same/similar mechanism the OWASP
>>>> Defect Dojo project uses. I question if that project, or any other project
>>>> using this method have received the support they deserve.
>>>>
>>>> If the donor didn’t inform me of their contribution, I would likely
>>>> never know about this situation. This is not the type of organization I
>>>> want to continue to be associated with.
>>>>
>>>> I am asking for a thorough review, not only on the Dependency-Track
>>>> project, but on all projects that use this method of donation.
>>>>
>>>> I have not decided whether or not to continue donating my projects to
>>>> OWASP or not. At risk for being pulled from OWASP are:
>>>>
>>>> Dependency-Check Jenkins plugin
>>>> Dependency-Check SonarQube plugin
>>>> Dependency-Track
>>>>
>>>> In all cases however, I will be removing the OWASP name from the above
>>>> projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Steve Springett*
>>>> About:   https://about.me/stevespringett
>>>> GitHub:   https://github.com/stevespringett
>>>> Keybase:   https://keybase.io/stevespringett   <https://www.owasp.org/>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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