[Owasp-leaders] [Owasp-board] Fwd: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status

Seba seba at owasp.org
Mon Oct 9 05:13:58 UTC 2017


Hi Eoin,

Well, I did not post this on the leaders list.
I will reply only to the board mailing list for peeps that are interested
:-)

Regards

Seba

On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 at 22:36, Eoin Keary <eoin.keary at owasp.org> wrote:

> And here's me thinking owasp mail lists were a forum for solving the
> problem of software insecurity :)
>
> -what do I know.....
>
>
> @eoinkeary
> OWASP since 2004!!
>
> On 8 Oct 2017, at 09:26, Seba <seba at owasp.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> I am pretty sure that an email to accounting would have resulted in a
> forward to you and Matt how to handle this?
>
> You cannot expect from the project/chapter leaders to know about all the
> boards decisions.
>
> Looking at what was decided:
> Motion: P10 - Accounts with a balance of $5,000 or more as of December 1,
> with no proposed budget for spending their funds, *will be contacted by
> the OWASP staff directly to review their account balance*.
> *We were not contacted by the OWASP staff. And were not aware of having to
> submit a budget.*
> Furthermore when looking at:
> Motion: P7 - The OWASP Foundation *Staff will be responsible for
> notifying all chapters and projects of their available account balance on
> at least a monthly basis*. The notification should also include a
> reference to where they can go to find the list of pre-approved expenses.
> *We have not seen this, it was only because we requested a detailed
> balance last September that we got insight in the removed money from our
> available budget.*
>
> When I look at the board meeting minutes of Oct-2015, I do not see a
> detailed proposal or rationale on these motions.
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iun7xfeJI9vU0rEbIoix46ge1h_kQ_3WqeAG8e2ctPs/edit
> (I am not going to listen to a complete recording for this).
>
> I can only assume this was initiated for inactive chapter/projects (where
> you should just recoup all their budget).
> The SAMM project is active and we put a lot of time/resources in
> generating income for the project and the foundation.
> Part of the income was generated by giving SAMM training at appsec
> conferences, where 60% of the revenue was directly for the foundation and
> 40% was allocated to the SAMM project.
> Recouping our budget - which we need to further develop SAMMv2 and
> organize/support SAMM and community summits - makes me feel that our
> volunteer efforts are underappreciated.
>
> I can understand that you want to activate the budget at the
> chapter/projects - but you cannot do this "by policy" without an active
> communication and involvement of the staff and the volunteers.
>
> So I come back to our original question: *Please refund the 3677.22 USD
> to the OWASP SAMM project ?*
>
> I also suggest to contact all the chapters/project leaders individually
> for budgeting 2018, as I have not seen this either...
> Secondly: instead of making budget available to projects/chapters we
> should teach them how to raise income through sponsorship, training,
> events, books, ...
>
> Kind regards
>
> Seba
>
> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 10:36 PM Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Seba and Brian
>>
>> I'm sorry, I've been onsite doing crazy flying hours. As Tom Brennan
>> notes, I am not operational. If you need to get something like this looked
>> at, you need to mail accounting at owasp.org which goes to a group alias
>> that our finance team can process. The process as agreed by the Board in
>> 2015 was that projects and chapters who did not submit a budget OR were
>> inactive had a reduction to a $5k balance. You did not submit a budget.
>> There's no question OpenSAMM was active, but the OR part is that you didn't
>> submit a budget. This will be happening again soon.
>>
>> Here's the extract of your transactions. With your $10k donation to the
>> Developer Summit, your forthcoming travel of $1739 to the OpenSAMM summit
>> in November and the $3677.22 reduction to $5k in December last year, the
>> balance is currently $0 across both the EU and US chapter balances.
>>
>> What do you need and how can we move this forward? We have Community
>> Engagement funds, and if you've not used it yet in 2017, you have $2k
>> available under that program. I'm happy to approve that right now if that's
>> what you need.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Tom Brennan <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed and as you know we are ALL volunteers and the only way to address
>>> when managing to policy and resources have been exhausted.
>>>
>>> Thanks Seba.
>>>
>>> Tom Brennan
>>> 973-202-0122 <(973)%20202-0122>
>>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Seba <seba at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> I have added this to the board agenda -
>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/October_11,_2017
>>> I will not be able to attend as this is the middle of the night in
>>> Europe.
>>> Maybe Brian can?
>>>
>>> I raised this immediately to Andrew & staff when we got the detailed
>>> overview of income/expenses for the project.
>>> not getting any response and now having to add this to the board agenda
>>> does not seem very efficient use of time of the involved volunteers.
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Seba
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 3:41 PM Tom Brennan <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you for the insight Brian. Operationally,  Projects are managed
>>>> by Matt T and Claudia it appears that those options have been exhausted.
>>>>
>>>> Since on the surface the issue that needs additional clarity and was
>>>> not able to be resolved by staff to satisfaction managing to currently
>>>> written policy as a guideline then as the Secretary I would recommend to
>>>> all members as I always do, 1) in advance (preferred 10 days) add new
>>>> business item to the board wiki agenda
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Board 2) Have a representative attend
>>>> the board meeting 3) the OpenSAMM project leader(a) to speak (when new
>>>> business is called for a block of time) to this item on the upcoming
>>>> monthly global board agenda resulting in a motion and a vote of its elected
>>>> leaders to resolve it (that is the appeal)
>>>>
>>>> Since we operate in a decentralized community meeting monthly for the
>>>> purpose of official OWASP business the member shall simply edit and add as
>>>> new business a item to be raised otherwise it will never be officially
>>>> reviewed and voted on by the elected leadership to be resolved by a
>>>> majority vote.  There is no ivory tower that is how and the purpose of a
>>>> elected board of directors when operational issues need additional focus
>>>> effecting members.
>>>>
>>>> This democratic process using Roberts rules is super important to
>>>> understand especially as we move to a election cycle that starts on October
>>>> 9th people have to VOTE with what they want OWASP to be in the future
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/2017_Global_Board_of_Directors_Election it
>>>> is also a great opportunity for incoming board candidates to be part of the
>>>> discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Tom Brennan
>>>> 973-202-0122 <(973)%20202-0122>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Brian Glas <brian.glas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tom,
>>>> This isn't related to the summit or a traditional reimbursement.
>>>>
>>>> The original request was related to a withdrawal of funds from our
>>>> budget that we very much disagreed with.
>>>>
>>>> "*We cannot agree to line 65* "Recouping funds from projects that are
>>>> either inactive, or did not submit a budget for 2017"
>>>>
>>>> 1) OWASP SAMM is one of the most active flagship projects for the last
>>>> couple of years, we even had a project summit during the last 3 years
>>>> (hence the income)
>>>> 2) None of the SAMM project leaders did get a request to submit a
>>>> budget for 2017. If we would have received that we should surely have
>>>> provided one.
>>>>
>>>> *Please refund the 3677.22 USD to the OWASP SAMM project ?*
>>>> We need this to cover our project team summit expenses in November."
>>>>
>>>> I'm not clear on what the dispute process is for something like this,
>>>> so if you can point us to that, it would be much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 7:39 AM, Tom Brennan <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If the project team had the funding and they submit a reimbursement
>>>>> Andrew should not be in the middle when managing to the existing
>>>>> reimbursement policy in the current project handbook. He’s not operational
>>>>> and appointed to the treasurer role to keep the global budget in check not
>>>>> individual transactions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oct 11 this can be noted as old business re Summit to get it resolved
>>>>> if needed Seba. Please have a representative join the public meeting to
>>>>> speak to it https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Board
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Brennan
>>>>> 973-202-0122 <(973)%20202-0122>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 2:18 AM, Seba <seba at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> As I am not getting a response from Andrew: I am escalating this to
>>>>> the board.
>>>>>
>>>>> *We cannot agree to line 65* "Recouping funds from projects that are
>>>>> either inactive, or did not submit a budget for 2017"
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) OWASP SAMM is one of the most active flagship projects for the last
>>>>> couple of years, we even had a project summit during the last 3 years
>>>>> (hence the income)
>>>>> 2) None of the SAMM project leaders did get a request to submit a
>>>>> budget for 2017. If we would have received that we should surely have
>>>>> provided one.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Please refund the 3677.22 USD to the OWASP SAMM project?*
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Seba
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>>> From: Seba <seba at owasp.org>
>>>>> Date: Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 6:34 PM
>>>>> Subject: Fwd: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>>> To: Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org>, Matt Tesauro <
>>>>> matt.tesauro at owasp.org>, Tom Pappas <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>
>>>>> Cc: Bart De Win <bart.dewin at owasp.org>, Brian Glas <
>>>>> brian.glas at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> hi Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>> nudge, nudge ?? :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you confirm you get this email?
>>>>>
>>>>> regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Seba
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>>> From: Seba <seba at owasp.org>
>>>>> Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 9:40 AM
>>>>> Subject: Fwd: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>>> To: Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org>, Matt Tesauro <
>>>>> matt.tesauro at owasp.org>, Tom Pappas <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>
>>>>> Cc: Bart De Win <bart.dewin at owasp.org>, Brian Glas <
>>>>> brian.glas at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew,
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you confirm the refund of 3677.22 USD to the OWASP SAMM project ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Seba
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>>> From: Seba <seba at owasp.org>
>>>>> Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 9:25 PM
>>>>> Subject: Fwd: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>>> To: Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org>, Matt Tesauro <
>>>>> matt.tesauro at owasp.org>, Tom Pappas <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>
>>>>> Cc: Brian Glas <brian.glas at gmail.com>, Bart De Win <
>>>>> bart.dewin at owasp.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>
>>>>> *We cannot agree to line 65* "Recouping funds from projects that are
>>>>> either inactive, or did not submit a budget for 2017"
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) OWASP SAMM is one of the most active flagship projects for the last
>>>>> couple of years, we even had a project summit during the last 3 years
>>>>> (hence the income)
>>>>> 2) None of the SAMM project leaders did get a request to submit a
>>>>> budget for 2017. If we would have received that we should surely have
>>>>> provided one.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Please refund the 3677.22 USD to the OWASP SAMM project ?*
>>>>> We need this to cover our project team summit expenses in November.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Seba
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>>> From: Tom Pappas <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>
>>>>> Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 1:14 AM
>>>>> Subject: RE: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>>> To: Seba <seba at owasp.org>, Andrew van der Stock (vanderaj at owasp.org) <
>>>>> vanderaj at owasp.org>
>>>>> Cc: Matt Tesauro (matt.tesauro at owasp.org) <matt.tesauro at owasp.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Seba,  here you go there are two tabs as Open SAMM has both a US
>>>>> and EU balance.  These are from the beginning of the proj through 7.31.17
>>>>> which is the last month we have closed.  Take care
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas S. Pappas, MSA |   Senior Vice President of Finance &
>>>>> Administration | Virtual, Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>> D: +1-781-876-8914 <(781)%20876-8914>
>>>>>
>>>>> F:  +1-781-623-8460 <(781)%20623-8460>
>>>>>
>>>>> *tpappas at virtualmgmt.com <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>*
>>>>>
>>>>> 401 Edgewater Place, Suite 600, Wakefield, MA 01880
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+Edgewater+Place,+Suite+600,+Wakefield,+MA+01880&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Seba [mailto:seba at owasp.org]
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 10, 2017 5:46 AM
>>>>> *To:* Alison Shrader <accounting at owasp.org>
>>>>> *Subject:* [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you provide a detailed overview of income/expenses for the SAMM
>>>>> project for the last year?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seba
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "OWASP Accounting group" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to accounting+unsubscribe at owasp.org.
>>>>>
>>>>> <OpenSamm US and EU Balance as of 7.31.17.xlsx>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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