[Owasp-leaders] rough consensus & running code

Steve Kosten steve.kosten at owasp.org
Sun May 7 04:44:01 UTC 2017


I was disturbed to read your comment that you think that OWASP values and
core principles "are being hijacked by staff to bottleneck and constrain
chapter leaders, mostly to protect their jobs".  In stating this, you are
impugning the character of some very good people who have worked hard to
support our organization, and without much apparent proof to support this
significant charge.  When I read Tiffany's document "Outline for New
Chapters", I found it to be in line with what I have found within the
Chapter Leader Handbook and from my experience, it did not appear in any
sense that significant changes were proposed.  If I'm mistaken and there
are, I think this can be expressed and brought up for discussion without
attacking the staff.  I find the tone of this discourse to be unfortunate
and sympathize with the staff; it must be very demoralizing to be trying to
do their best to support the organization only to be lambasted publicly
like this.  I certainly think they, as we are, trying to do the right thing
for the organization.  Attacking them doesn't really help us.

It appears you have issues w/ the handbook.  I completely agree with Liam,
let's bring your issues forward and discuss them.  I had previously signed
up to be a part of this review (prior to reading this thread) and will
fully support this review.  I too want to make things as easy as possible
for chapters and projects to be successful.  And I think Tiffany is too,
which is why she created this document in the first place.  So let's please
put some of this ugliness behind us and work together to make the handbook
better.  If you feel chapters and projects are being bottlenecked, let's
address that at the same time.

Steve Kosten
OWASP Denver Chapter Leader

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 9:32 AM, Bev Corwin <bev.corwin at owasp.org> wrote:

> Sounds like the Chapter Leader Handbook needs to be voted on by members.
> There are many flaws. Also, staff, chapter leaders and board need some
> training in user experience, member experience, and grassroots
> communications outreach. These top down methodologies and processes are
> contrary to OWASP values and core principles. They are being hijacked by
> staff to bottleneck and constrain chapter leaders, mostly to protect their
> jobs. Bottlenecking needs to be prohibited. Big problem at OWASP.
> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Tiffany Long <tiffany.long at owasp.org>
> wrote:
>> Hey Tom and Bev!  It seems you are ahead of the curve.  This document was
>> set to be released to the community with the Ops Update Blog post
>> accompanied by the following text:
>> Chapter Orientation:
>>> Since September all new chapters were requested to have an Orientation
>>> meeting via Gotomeeting.  Since then these meetings have been refined into
>>> a  series of standing one on one appointments for any Chapter Leaders
>>> starting a new chapter, any new chapter leaders who wish to join, and any
>>> current leaders who want to take a refresher.
>>> So far reactions have been good.  Many experienced chapter leaders have
>>> expressed a wish for this when they got started and follow up emails with
>>> procedural questions have dropped from an average of 5 per new chapter to
>>> 10 total in the last 8 months.  We have also seen an uptick in new chapters
>>> using funds and getting multiple leaders on board.  All of these are
>>> indicators of early chapter health.  Board members, staff, and the
>>> community can read the draft outline of the orientation.  The document will
>>> be made public in the form of the Chapter FAQ in the next few weeks.
>> It has long been noted that new chapter leaders tick the box that says
>> that they have read the Chapter Leader Handbook, but often do not
>> understand what help they can get from the foundation or how funding works.
>> This document is a draft outline of the most commonly asked questions about
>> being a chapter leader.
>> The orientation is divided into three parts, the first addresses how to
>> build a chapter, how to reach out to audiences and tactics that other
>> chapters have used to flourish. The second part covers our vendor
>> neutrality policy and other rules and privileges for chapter leaders.
>> Finally we discuss funding in-depth.
>> Some conversations are expected to be had again when chapter leaders are
>> not overwhelmed with questions. In the outline you will see these topics
>> marked with statements like "reach out to me." Every point in this
>> orientation outline is simply a rehash from the Chapter Leader Handbook.
>> Tiffany Long
>> Community Manager
>> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Bev Corwin <bev.corwin at owasp.org> wrote:
>>> PS: Re: Document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uupqip9TiejURb
>>> znt_Dk6t1H--8foRJxcVQ2gdmUj-s/edit?ts=590a0fcc
>>> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Bev Corwin <bev.corwin at owasp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Note that you cannot "edit" or "comment" on this document. The tone is
>>>> very *not* right for "consensus". In fact, it is authoritarian in tone and
>>>> intent. Sounds like OWASP Staff are revolting against local chapters
>>>> and making the OWASP Global staff the new "kings" of OWASP Chapters. Do you
>>>> think that this this appropriate?
>>>> Bev
>>>> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Tom Brennan - OWASP <tomb at owasp.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> @OWASP we reject kings, presidents and voting. we believe in rough
>>>>> consensus and running code
>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/About_The_Open_Web_Application_Security_Project#Core_Values>,
>>>>> your attendance is requested to join the next global board meeting on May
>>>>> 9th
>>>>> Details:
>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Board
>>>>> Join us share your ideas, concerns and suggestions in person or
>>>>> virtually
>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:OWASP_AppSec_Conference>
>>>>> On behalf of the 2017 Board of Directors thank you for caring and
>>>>> sharing.
>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/About_The_Open_Web_Applicati
>>>>> on_Security_Project#2017_Elected_by_Membership.2C_Global_Board_Members
>>>>> Tom Brennan
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
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