[Owasp-leaders] OWASP Top 10 Summit Outcomes

Andrew van der Stock vanderaj at owasp.org
Mon Jun 12 14:41:35 UTC 2017

Hi there,

Today was a pretty good day, We got through a lot of technical discussion
on the OWASP Top 10 2017, and documented some outcomes.

*Session 1: OWASP Top 10 Governance and rationale*

In this first session, we talked about the history of the OWASP Top 10, and
how it evolved over time. In 2004, there was no data backing the standard.
In 2007, we used only CVE data for the analysis, and we used our judgement
to fit in CSRF as an issue. In 2010 and 2013, the forward looking issue was
out of date components, which on one analysis of the OWASP Top 10 to breach
data represents a full 24% of all data breaches. Therefore, there should
always be room for forward looking inclusions.

   - Audience is everyone in appsec, and not just developers
   - The basis for the OWASP Top 10 is "risks". I have suggested we adopt
   the ISO 31000:2015 standard definition for risk, so that we have the same
   understand as risk managers in most parts of the world.
   - We will document the rationale for the OWASP Top 10 on the wiki, and
   possibly at least a part of it in the document this year. This will be the
   same rationale / process going forward for 2020 and 2023
   - I will take a motion to the Board asking for a change to the Project
   Leader Handbook, where Flagship projects will have a six month grace period
   to obtain at least two leaders from two different firms to avoid
   perceptions of vendor lock in either in actuality or perceived. There is no
   restriction on a single leader from a single company controlling a Flagship
   project at the moment, so I want to de-couple the other issues from the
   independence issue.
   - There will be a transparent and documented decision to ensure that up
   to 2 of the OWASP Top 10 issues will be forward looking, and that the
   community should drive the consensus for what they will be. I will open up
   a discussion on OWASP Leaders and elsewhere with a short vote on what the 2
   for 2017 should be, including the existing two issues, XXE and object
   serialization, and I'll figure one out from the also rans of the data
   collection process.

*Session 2: OWASP Top 10 Data Collection Process*

We talked about the way data was collected and process by which it was
analysed. For 2017, there was an open call for data, but it wasn't widely
reported nor pushed once open, and this might have resulted in fewer
responses than in a perfect world. There was a lot of discussion around the
process, if we use data scientists, can we use the existing data, and if we
re-open the data collection. It was incredibly valuable discussion, and I
think it struck a good pragmatic balance. We want to drive a release this
year, but RC2 will not come out this week, so we will not be running
editing / creating sessions this week, but will instead work on getting a
bit more data in.

The outcomes from this session are:

   - A data collection process and timeline will be published to the wiki
   to make sure everyone knows how data is collected and analysed, and when
   the next data call will be held. Some of this will appear in the text,
   probably an appendix to make sure that our process is transparent and open.
   - I will work on a process with Foundation staff to ensure that we can
   maximise publicity for the next data call round in 2019. There was
   discussion of keeping it open all the time, but honestly, unless we can get
   a data scientist to volunteer, I doubt we could make use of that
   contribution. For smaller consultancies, obtaining this data is already
   difficult, and we don't want folks to be overly burdened by the data call.
   - A data call extension will be pushed out for interested parties. I
   will do this tomorrow as it's quite late here already. As long as data is
   roughly in the same Excel format as the existing call and provided by the
   end of July, I think we can use it.
   - Dave will reach out to Brian Glas to obtain feedback for tomorrow's
   data weighting session to be held in the morning.
   - For 2020, we will try to find data scientists to help us to improve
   our data methodology and analysis, so that for the non-forward looking data
   at least, we can ensure that data drives inclusion.
   - Ordering will never be strictly data order; to provide continuity,
   there is a decision (which will now be documented) that if A1 ... A3 in
   2010 are the same in 2017 but in a slightly different order, those will
   retain a previous order. This helps folks map results year on year and
   prevents massive upheaval between years.
   - Feedback obtained from the OWASP Top 10 mail list will end up in Git
   Hub tomorrow as issues. Feedback sent privately to Dave, I will reach out
   to these individuals to ask permission to create issues at GitHub. This
   will help with project transparency. From now on, if you have feedback,
   please provide it at GitHub: https://github.com/OWASP/Top10/issues

This session kept on coming back to the weighting, and we looked at that
briefly. However, we have a session tomorrow morning for that, so I would
suggest participants look over the following blog posts before the session
to see where we can make improvements, either this time around (and
document it!), or if it will apply to 2020 and beyond. Thats for tomorrow.

   - https://snyk.io/blog/owasp-top-10-breaches/

I do want to point out that we probably should include impact as that's
part of a traditional risk, but we also need to be fair to all data
participants when weighting supplied data. Once we've made a decision, that
will be documented for 2017, and we will obtain advice for 2020, 2023.

Lastly, we worked on what the sessions will be. Considering the decisions
taken in consensus, it will not be possible to release an RC2 this week,
especially if we take more data. So we will return to looking over the A7
on Tuesday afternoon and A10 on Wednesday morning sessions. These are new
forward looking items, and may be with sufficient disclosure and possibly a
bit of rewording or re-ordering, we might be able to include them. Let's
work it out. Please participate.

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