[Owasp-leaders] Meetup.com goes Deep Politcal

Thu Feb 16 20:16:12 UTC 2017

You're miss understanding, it's nothing to do with hosting or blocking 
views.  If customers / users of meetup want to form political orgs 
that's fine. That's NOT the issue.

It's that the org promotes membership in a political organization on 
their home page, and that's fine if they want to do that, except OWASP 
shouldn't promote through links a political website that promotes a 
specific political party or specific political group.

-- Ralph Durkee

On 02/16/2017 01:36 PM, Timothy D. Morgan wrote:
> Does the DNC host Republican orgs on their site?  Does the RNC
> host Democratic orgs on their site?  Of course not.  But Meetup doesn't block
> views they don't believe in:
>    https://www.meetup.com/topics/donald-trump/
>    https://www.meetup.com/RLC-Oregon/
>
> What you have done, Ralph, is make a false analogy.  For more information, see:
>    http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/falsean.htm
>
> tim
>
>
> On 2017-02-16 12:41:49 -0500 "Ralph Durkee (OWASP)" <Ralph.Durkee at owasp.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I think most would agree that OWASP should avoid linking to political
>> websites when possible.
>>
>> If a website promoted joining either the DNC or RNC on it's home page or
>> via emails, then I think most would agree it's political.
>>
>> If a website promotes joining the #resist movement or the tea party
>> movement on it's home page or via emails, then should it be considered
>> political?  I think so.
>>
>> -- Ralph Durkee
>>    
>>
>> On 02/15/2017 09:12 PM, Brad Causey wrote:
>>> This is the page I think everyone is discussing. (See attached)
>>>
>>> Basically, Meetup has declared that they are "on the left" pretty
>>> clearly. Now, as most of you well know I'm pretty far right as far as
>>> Americans go.
>>>
>>> With that bias declared up front, I don't see any reason to move away
>>> from Meetup. OWASP using their services has nothing to do with the
>>> fact that they've chosen sides in politics. We aren't endorsing their
>>> position, nor should we.
>>>
>>> Unless we plan to analyze the political statements of all affiliates,
>>> vendors, sponsors, etc., I don't feel any action is necessary. If
>>> their product fits our needs, then let's use them.
>>>
>>> I would even argue that discontinuing use of their services based on
>>> their political beliefs would be making a political statement of our
>>> own. Something I don't think we want to do.
>>>
>>> Let's leave the politics out of it if we can.
>>>
>>> Have a great evening everyone!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Brad Causey
>>> CISSP, MCSE, C|EH, CIFI, CGSP
>>>
>>> http://www.owasp.org
>>> --
>>> "Si vis pacem, para bellum"
>>> --
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:53 PM, Justin Ferguson
>>> <justin.ferguson at owasp.org <mailto:justin.ferguson at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>      How is this political?
>>>
>>>      meetuphomepage.png
>>>
>>>
>>>      On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:34 PM Ralph Durkee (OWASP)
>>>      <Ralph.Durkee at owasp.org <mailto:Ralph.Durkee at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>          I understand we have a lot of usage of meetup and making quick
>>>          changes
>>>          would consume resources we can't spare.  I also understand
>>>          there is no
>>>          easy or quick answer. However with such a service we must to
>>>          link to the
>>>          meetup website, and the political nature of their home page
>>>          infringes on
>>>          OWASP attempt to be politically neutral.  I'm not expecting a
>>>          quick
>>>          change that would be disruptive to progress, but we should
>>>          consider what
>>>          what their free speech does to politicize our organization, we
>>>          should
>>>          talk to them and consider the politicizing effect in
>>>          evaluating future
>>>          or expanded usage of meetup solutions.
>>>
>>>          -- Ralph Durkee
>>>
>>>
>>>          On 02/14/2017 09:21 PM, Andrew van der Stock wrote:
>>>          > If OWASP constantly made decisions relating the shifting
>>>          sands of
>>>          > lobbying and power and alliances, we'd still get it wrong as
>>>          many
>>>          > large firms we rely on pay lobbyists to gain influence in US
>>>          politics
>>>          > here and abroad. I think this is a good discussion to have,
>>>          but I
>>>          > don't see any immediate change in our commercial posture
>>>          unless it's
>>>          > particularly egregarious.
>>>          >
>>>          > Having a political stance baked into OWASP supply chain
>>>          decisions is a
>>>          > political decision, whether we like it or not. Not making a
>>>          decision
>>>          > is a political decision. I understand that we will not make
>>>          everyone
>>>          > happy with this stance, but I think it should be up to the
>>>          Board to
>>>          > evaluate this and make a decision if we change our approach
>>>          or not. I
>>>          > do not presume to answer for the entire Board, because
>>>          that's not how
>>>          > this works.
>>>          >
>>>          > thanks,
>>>          > Andrew
>>>
>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>          OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>>          OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>>          <mailto:OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org>
>>>          https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>          <https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders>
>>>
>>>      --
>>>      --
>>>      Justin Ferguson
>>>      OWASP-Kansas City Chapter Leader
>>>      justin.ferguson at owasp.org <mailto:justin.ferguson at owasp.org>
>>>
>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>      OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>>      OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org <mailto:OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org>
>>>      https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>      <https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders>
>>>
>>>   