[Owasp-leaders] Meetup.com goes Deep Politcal

Tin Zaw tin.zaw at owasp.org
Thu Feb 16 20:15:09 UTC 2017


I don't see how this discussion helps advance our mission of secure web
applications. Meetup is a tool. If it helps achieve our mission, use it. If
not, change it. That OWASP uses a vendor's services does not mean we
endorse the vendor's political position. However, if we exclude a vendor
because of its political position we don't agree with, we become a
political organization -- that is contrary to OWASP's mission.



On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Timothy D. Morgan <tim.morgan at owasp.org>
wrote:

> Does the DNC host Republican orgs on their site?  Does the RNC
> host Democratic orgs on their site?  Of course not.  But Meetup doesn't
> block
> views they don't believe in:
>   https://www.meetup.com/topics/donald-trump/
>   https://www.meetup.com/RLC-Oregon/
>
> What you have done, Ralph, is make a false analogy.  For more information,
> see:
>   http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/falsean.htm
>
> tim
>
>
> On 2017-02-16 12:41:49 -0500 "Ralph Durkee (OWASP)" <
> Ralph.Durkee at owasp.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I think most would agree that OWASP should avoid linking to political
> > websites when possible.
> >
> > If a website promoted joining either the DNC or RNC on it's home page or
> > via emails, then I think most would agree it's political.
> >
> > If a website promotes joining the #resist movement or the tea party
> > movement on it's home page or via emails, then should it be considered
> > political?  I think so.
> >
> > -- Ralph Durkee
> >
> >
> > On 02/15/2017 09:12 PM, Brad Causey wrote:
> > > This is the page I think everyone is discussing. (See attached)
> > >
> > > Basically, Meetup has declared that they are "on the left" pretty
> > > clearly. Now, as most of you well know I'm pretty far right as far as
> > > Americans go.
> > >
> > > With that bias declared up front, I don't see any reason to move away
> > > from Meetup. OWASP using their services has nothing to do with the
> > > fact that they've chosen sides in politics. We aren't endorsing their
> > > position, nor should we.
> > >
> > > Unless we plan to analyze the political statements of all affiliates,
> > > vendors, sponsors, etc., I don't feel any action is necessary. If
> > > their product fits our needs, then let's use them.
> > >
> > > I would even argue that discontinuing use of their services based on
> > > their political beliefs would be making a political statement of our
> > > own. Something I don't think we want to do.
> > >
> > > Let's leave the politics out of it if we can.
> > >
> > > Have a great evening everyone!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Brad Causey
> > > CISSP, MCSE, C|EH, CIFI, CGSP
> > >
> > > http://www.owasp.org
> > > --
> > > "Si vis pacem, para bellum"
> > > --
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:53 PM, Justin Ferguson
> > > <justin.ferguson at owasp.org <mailto:justin.ferguson at owasp.org>> wrote:
> > >
> > >     How is this political?
> > >
> > >     meetuphomepage.png
> > >
> > >
> > >     On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:34 PM Ralph Durkee (OWASP)
> > >     <Ralph.Durkee at owasp.org <mailto:Ralph.Durkee at owasp.org>> wrote:
> > >
> > >         I understand we have a lot of usage of meetup and making quick
> > >         changes
> > >         would consume resources we can't spare.  I also understand
> > >         there is no
> > >         easy or quick answer. However with such a service we must to
> > >         link to the
> > >         meetup website, and the political nature of their home page
> > >         infringes on
> > >         OWASP attempt to be politically neutral.  I'm not expecting a
> > >         quick
> > >         change that would be disruptive to progress, but we should
> > >         consider what
> > >         what their free speech does to politicize our organization, we
> > >         should
> > >         talk to them and consider the politicizing effect in
> > >         evaluating future
> > >         or expanded usage of meetup solutions.
> > >
> > >         -- Ralph Durkee
> > >
> > >
> > >         On 02/14/2017 09:21 PM, Andrew van der Stock wrote:
> > >         > If OWASP constantly made decisions relating the shifting
> > >         sands of
> > >         > lobbying and power and alliances, we'd still get it wrong as
> > >         many
> > >         > large firms we rely on pay lobbyists to gain influence in US
> > >         politics
> > >         > here and abroad. I think this is a good discussion to have,
> > >         but I
> > >         > don't see any immediate change in our commercial posture
> > >         unless it's
> > >         > particularly egregarious.
> > >         >
> > >         > Having a political stance baked into OWASP supply chain
> > >         decisions is a
> > >         > political decision, whether we like it or not. Not making a
> > >         decision
> > >         > is a political decision. I understand that we will not make
> > >         everyone
> > >         > happy with this stance, but I think it should be up to the
> > >         Board to
> > >         > evaluate this and make a decision if we change our approach
> > >         or not. I
> > >         > do not presume to answer for the entire Board, because
> > >         that's not how
> > >         > this works.
> > >         >
> > >         > thanks,
> > >         > Andrew
> > >
> > >         _______________________________________________
> > >         OWASP-Leaders mailing list
> > >         OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> > >         <mailto:OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org>
> > >         https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
> > >         <https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders>
> > >
> > >     --
> > >     --
> > >     Justin Ferguson
> > >     OWASP-Kansas City Chapter Leader
> > >     justin.ferguson at owasp.org <mailto:justin.ferguson at owasp.org>
> > >
> > >     _______________________________________________
> > >     OWASP-Leaders mailing list
> > >     OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org <mailto:OWASP-Leaders at lists.
> owasp.org>
> > >     https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
> > >     <https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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-- 
Tin Zaw
OWASP Volunteer
Google Voice: (213) 973-9295
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tinzaw
AppSec California: https://2017.appseccalifornia.org/
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