sriram.shyam at owasp.org
Mon Sep 19 03:01:53 UTC 2016
Correction : *Dynamic*
On Monday, September 19, 2016, Sriram Shyam <sriram.shyam at owasp.org> wrote:
> May be you can try white listing a range of IP's by looking the last three
> logins. But, most of the devices are using static IP, it's not literally
> possible in most of the cases.So, we can create a profile page sort of
> thing in which weshould register our "device".
> Like a list of devices, for egs: mobile: IMEI, computer: MAC.
> It's a quite complex thingy but I believe that's the only thing which
> would help.
> On Monday, September 19, 2016, Aurelijus Stanislovaitis <
> aurelijus.stanislovaitis at owasp.org
>> if we are supposed to prevent mass login attempts then from technical
>> point of view this not much different than password brute-force attack.
>> CSRF is not suitable for this purpose at all, because it does not prevent
>> automated login. Attacker is free to get the login page along with all
>> tokens before submitting username+pwd. It may only slow down the rate of
>> login attempts slightly, if that matters.
>> The same can be said about 2 step login process (if still one factor).
>> Adding steps does not prevent form automated login.
>> Device fingerprinting + historical data intrigues and might be a part of
>> a solution. Details of implementation are the most important. Does it block
>> login attempts from unseen devices? Or maybe it does it prevent multiple
>> logins from the same fingerprint? How fingerprint is calculated, etc.
>> I'm not convinced that captha's are useless at all. Yes, bypasses exist,
>> but is there any research proving that that captcha is fundamentally broken?
>> 2FA sounds like an ultimate solution anyway.
>> Alternatively might be worthy to look into the root cause of this -
>> password reusing. How to fix this?
>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 1:39 AM, Brad Causey <bradcausey at owasp.org>
>>> Hey Dave!
>>> We've been using basic CSRF protection with a two step login process. It
>>> basically prevents automated logins.
>>> Of course, that doesn't stop the attacker from manually logging in, or
>>> scripting a browser.
>>> For that, we use device fingerprinting and historical data.
>>> "Si vis pacem, para bellum"
>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Dave Wichers <dave.wichers at owasp.org>
>>>> I'm glad to see this article already exists. What I'd love to see next
>>>> is recommended techniques to defend against this type of attack. I know
>>>> that such defenses are really hard as this is a complex subject.
>>>> For example, adding CAPTCHAs just pisses off users and doesn't work
>>>> Requiring two factor authentication helps, but makes the site harder to
>>>> use. And even if you require 2 factor, like the banks do with their
>>>> username/password (factor 1) then Q/A or saved token (factor 2), they put
>>>> the normal username/password as step 1, so credential stuffing attacks can
>>>> still be done, and if there is a match, then the attacker can try to guess
>>>> the Q/A answer, or spear fish the victim (esp. if the username is their
>>>> email address, which hopefully its not), etc.
>>>> Requiring 'real' 2 factor, like sending a pin to the user's mobile
>>>> phone is far better, but how many sites even provide that as an option,
>>>> nevermind require it. And I think its even harder for mobile apps as
>>>> usability for them is even more critical than traditional web apps.
>>>> Never allowing the username to be the customer's (victim's) email
>>>> address would help reduce the likelihood of an account name match from one
>>>> system to another AND help prevent the attacker from spear fishing the
>>>> victim (because the victim's actually email address wouldn't be obvious).
>>>> So that's one thing we could recommend.
>>>> Anyway. This is a complex topic and worthy of discussion. It would be
>>>> awesome if we could come up with a Credential Stuffing Prevention Cheat
>>>> Sheet with whatever good ideas we agree would make it harder, and also
>>>> clearly document the techniques that don't work at all (like use of
>>>> Has anyone thought really hard about this and wants to discuss? I've
>>>> only been thinking about it for a couple of days.
>>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> *Web Application Penetration Tester,*
> *Director | PrimeFort**OWASP Pondicherry Leader*
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*Web Application Penetration Tester,*
*Director | PrimeFort**OWASP Pondicherry Leader*
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