[Owasp-leaders] SecDevOps Risk Workflow Book (please help with your feedback)

Jason Johnson jason.johnson at p7n.net
Sat Nov 5 17:03:56 UTC 2016

True, I'm trying to make it a standard at work. I would like to help if anyone is interested with the rules. 

On November 5, 2016 11:29:41 AM CDT, Sherif Mansour <sherif.mansour at owasp.org> wrote:
>+1 an OWASP rule pack + plugin for Sonar feels like a worthwhike
>given its Open Source and scans many languages which is the issue with
>Static Code Analyzers i.e. only language specific.
>On Saturday, 5 November 2016, Jason Johnson <jason.johnson at p7n.net>
>> Yeah we mostly use the defaults and write some of our own. Would be
>> to make a owasp sonar plugin with something like the dependency
>plugin. We
>> dont pay for the vb.net stuff. Mainly the work is defining the poor
>> descriptions of the default rules.
>> On November 5, 2016 10:59:48 AM CDT, Sherif Mansour <
>> sherif.mansour at owasp.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sherif.mansour at owasp.org');>> wrote:
>>> @Jason, do you have security rules for Sonar?
>>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Jason Johnson <jason.johnson at p7n.net
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jason.johnson at p7n.net');>> wrote:
>>>> We are currently working through this now. I am curious how the
>>>> is set up in jira. We use that also and I would like to integrate
>>>> results and track the changes. We use sonar and owasp dependency
>checker to
>>>> scan code. Sonar tracks all the vulnerable code crap. DevOps is a
>>>> on the security tracking for sure. I too am looking for input.
>>>> On November 5, 2016 10:08:08 AM CDT, Sherif Mansour <
>>>> sherif.mansour at owasp.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sherif.mansour at owasp.org');>> wrote:
>>>>> +Francois
>>>>> Hey guys,
>>>>> So we are now hitting on some important and amazing points, and
>>>>> for sharing all this.
>>>>> In order to help, and in the spirit of sharing I have attached my
>>>>> "Security in a Continuous Delivery World" slides 20 & 21 of my
>>>>> slidedeck. This was from the first OWASP London chapter meeting
>this year.
>>>>> What I will do is respond to some great points made here, and also
>>>>> propose a few things we might work on.
>>>>> *So first Mario:*
>>>>> Yes and a thousand times yes we need fields like the ones you have
>>>>> added in order to do metrics and provide enough information to the
>>>>> developer in order for it to be useful.
>>>>> For each ticket I wrote down 3 guiding principles to use as a
>>>>> Star":
>>>>>    - *Unique* - No duplicate tickets
>>>>>    - *Useful* - Improves the security and quality of the software
>>>>>    - *Actionable* - All necessary information is in the ticket
>>>>> So I had custom fields that looked like this:
>>>>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>>>> *In order to create metrics like this:*
>>>>> [image: Inline image 2]
>>>>> I did not realise you could add detailed fields like
>>>>> and PoC fields which is perfect for this.
>>>>> Where possible wanted to add URL, Domain, Subdomain, impacted
>>>>> parameter(s)
>>>>> For Static Code analysis you need to know the App, File, Line
>number +
>>>>> Alternate paths/flows for the same issue (i.e. the sources and
>sinks for
>>>>> the vulnerability).
>>>>> @Mario, on the point that there should never be FPs raised as Jira
>>>>> tickets, I agree these should be vetted and tweaked to never do
>>>>> However there is no guarantee that mistakes will not be made, and
>>>>> security more often than not mistakes are made so it would help to
>have a
>>>>> resolution state for false positives, is is also an acknowledgment
>>>>> cooperation between the devs and security team, and a commitment
>>>>> improvement.
>>>>> I.e. we know crap happens, in security crap/mistakes will happen
>and we
>>>>> need to improve on it.
>>>>> *Issue #1*
>>>>> @Dinis @Mario @Simon, the challenge is when you have say 334x XSS
>>>>> you do not want to create hundreds of tickets and you want to
>>>>> them into one.
>>>>> On the other hand you need to have a way of tracking which issues
>>>>> already been raises as a unique ticket of or as part of a ticket
>so that
>>>>> you do not constantly spam the developers.
>>>>> *Possible solution: *The tool found the results needs to be able
>>>>> have the option to "group" issues in a single ticket as an option,
>but also
>>>>> to track each issue over time so it can inform the bug tracker if
>the issue
>>>>> has been resolved or not.
>>>>> Additionally it needs to NOT raise an issue in the bug tracker if
>it is
>>>>> already raised and the developer is working on it
>>>>> *Issue #2*
>>>>> @Mario, each org is a bit different so they might not score, or
>>>>> the same attributes so we might want to consider the lowest common
>>>>> denominator of stuff that should be in there in order for the
>tickets to be
>>>>> unique, useful, and actionable.
>>>>> *Possible solution: *Document a set of guiding principles and
>>>>> requirements. Publish an ideal/boiler plate jira project that
>meets these
>>>>> requirements so 1) Tech Teams have something ready made to
>customize off of
>>>>> 2) Have a set of principles to know what to customize towards.
>>>>> *Issue #3*
>>>>> @Simon, I have been thinking about the false positive thing for
>about a
>>>>> year now. In order to get false positive data the tool (I am just
>going to
>>>>> zap in this example to make things easier) would either need to do
>>>>> things:
>>>>>    1. Have a facility for the user to input false positives from
>>>>>    zap or..
>>>>>    2. The tool would need to be able to connect to the bug tracker
>>>>>    identify which issues zap raised are not marked as false
>positives there.
>>>>> *Now that you have the data, then what do you do with it?*
>>>>> To @Mario's point to I really want to ship my security issues data
>>>>> somewhere else? I this case there are a few things that can be
>>>>>    1. Keep the data local to the org, and simply use the info to
>>>>>    leverage as rules to suppress future false positives
>>>>>       1. e.g. The following cookies do not need to be set to
>>>>>       etc..
>>>>>       2. e.g. The following pages/sub domain can be iframed
>>>>>       3. e.g. The following domain is a static domain and we can
>>>>>       CORS set to "*" wildcard
>>>>>       4. Ok I'll stop now :-)
>>>>>    2. Ask the user if its ok to get diagnostic data and make it
>>>>>    explicit what we are asking for e.g.
>>>>>       1. we will only ask for how many times a specific rule
>>>>>       a false positive (but not the actual content of the
>>>>>    3. Finally you can give the tech team to send more verbose
>>>>>    information, if they are happy to do so. Academics and open
>source tools
>>>>>    might be an example.
>>>>>       1. There has to be a very clear feature that carefully
>>>>>       to them what they are actually doing so they can't turn it
>on by accident.
>>>>>    4. I have been thinking about Machine Learning and other AI
>>>>>    techniques in this use case to improve the quality of ZAP,
>there are two
>>>>>    areas it can work:
>>>>>       1. Filters false positives
>>>>>          1. Create a baseline model where ZAP takes all the data
>>>>>          contributed by the community to leverage a machine
>learning algorithm such
>>>>>          as logistic regression and user that to "auto filter"
>that it thinks are
>>>>>          false positives
>>>>>          2. Create a local model which takes the individual
>>>>>          organisation's data and does pretty much the same thing,
>only in this case
>>>>>          the data doesn't leave the organisation.
>>>>>          3. I think Spark can be useful for the baseline version,
>>>>>          I have played around with it a little bit.
>>>>>       2. Improves the scanner's ability to find issues:
>>>>>          1. Ahhh.... this is going to be tough, my first thought
>is to
>>>>>          leverage neural networks such as TensorFlows Deep
>learning but I have never
>>>>>          used it.
>>>>>          2. I can see it working for SQLi and a few others pretty
>>>>>          but this will require a lot of thought
>>>>> *Next steps?*
>>>>> *@Dinis*, I think you got quite a bit of info to think about and
>>>>> to incorporate into the draft, so you might want to take some time
>and find
>>>>> out what you think about all this info
>>>>> *@all *do you think it makes sense to 1) set some guiding
>>>>> 2) a jira project with all this info to leverage with the goal to
>have tech
>>>>> teal to be able to:
>>>>>    - Have something ready made to customize off of
>>>>>    - Have a set of principles to know what to customize towards.
>>>>> *@Simon *This might be a bit further in the future, but if there
>is a
>>>>> way to configure zap to query a bugtracker for such information
>and use the
>>>>> info to improve either the local instance of zap or (with
>permission) take
>>>>> some statistics to help improve the overall quality of ZAP.
>>>>> -Sherif
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Mario Robles OWASP <
>>>>> mario.robles at owasp.org
>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mario.robles at owasp.org');>> wrote:
>>>>>> The workflow I use is very simple actually because need to be
>>>>>> to different teams with different SDLC models on different
>Countries, it’s
>>>>>> more generic I would say:
>>>>>> Fixing: The issue is assigned to someone working on fixing it
>(link to
>>>>>> issue in their own Agile board), if they challenge the issue and
>risk is
>>>>>> accepted the issue is sent to Done using Risk Accepted or Not an
>issue as
>>>>>> resolution
>>>>>> Testing: When security test the issue as part of the QA process
>>>>>> Deploying: Security accept or reject the fix sending it back to
>>>>>> or providing approval moving it to the Deploying queue
>>>>>> Acceptance: Dev team move the issue to Acceptance when it’s ready
>>>>>> UAT for final tests
>>>>>> Done: Security will send the issue back to fixing is something
>>>>>> happened, otherwise will provide sign off by moving it to Done
>>>>>> resolution Fixed
>>>>>> I use Jira dashboards but also some custom macro based metrics
>>>>>> on Jira exports
>>>>>> I do really like your workflow, however in my experience Dev
>>>>>> start getting hesitant to follow your process when more clic
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
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