[Owasp-leaders] Bring balance: force verification in scanning tools

johanna curiel curiel johanna.curiel at owasp.org
Wed May 25 01:15:41 UTC 2016


For those who have not seen the video and read Phineas hacking
instructions,  highly recommended

https://tune.pk/video/6528544/hack


On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:43 PM, Gregory Disney <gregory.disney at owasp.org>
wrote:

> This is just silly,  Black hats happen, accept its part of the ecosystem
> and move on.
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 24, 2016, johanna curiel curiel <johanna.curiel at owasp.org>
> wrote:
>
>> >>I just don't worry about such things.
>>
>> All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing.
>> <http://www.wisdomquotes.com/quote/edmund-burke-1.html>
>> - Edmund Burke
>>
>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Eoin Keary <eoin.keary at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep,
>>> You can't ban anything it's the Internet.
>>> Anything over used, consumed or abused can be bad.
>>> I just don't worry about such things.
>>>
>>>
>>> Eoin Keary
>>> OWASP Volunteer
>>> @eoinkeary
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24 May 2016, at 21:54, johanna curiel curiel <
>>> johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Eoin
>>>
>>> I think you got my point. Setting restrictions like verifications are
>>> not the final solution but I wonder what will happen because whether you
>>> like it or not, makes it more difficult for everyone to use it, however if
>>> you are a white hat, you will verify . Blackhats will definitely move to
>>> another tool than go and adapt it.
>>>
>>>
>>> For those who have not seen the video and read Phineas hacking
>>> instructions I highly recommended
>>>
>>> https://tune.pk/video/6528544/hack
>>>
>>> BTW: You can use it as learning video 😝
>>> I call this lesson:
>>> *Angels and Demons: Do bad things using ZAP *
>>>  for the good reasons (if you hate police abuse)😇
>>>  for the bad reason ,leaking the entire catalan Union data online😈 and
>>> inviting others to hack back!
>>>
>>> VOTE ANARCHIST!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/06/30/riots-in-the-hague-after-aruban-dies-in-police-custody/
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxp2C6yuTao
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Eoin Keary <eoin.keary at owasp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Internet is evil also. It needs to be banned/restricted!
>>>> No Internet == no cyber hackers!!
>>>> 😀
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 2:52 AM, Mario Robles <mario.robles at owasp.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hmm
>>>>> "Hacking Tools" find the bad stuff, the pentester should include how
>>>>> to fix it in the report then later will meet with the development team to
>>>>> guide them on how to fix the issues
>>>>>
>>>>> I prefer Zap team focusing on how to find more stuff rather than
>>>>> spending time on generic remediation steps that most likely will be
>>>>> different for every issue on every development project, that's a complaint
>>>>> developers have about generic reports right ?
>>>>>
>>>>> If the dev team is committed with security then they use tools made
>>>>> for prevention directly in their IDE, zap is made for detection if their
>>>>> prevention was not enough
>>>>>
>>>>> :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Mario
>>>>> # Please excuse any typos as this was sent from a mobile device
>>>>>
>>>>> El 23 may 2016, a las 1:33 p.m., johanna curiel curiel <
>>>>> johanna.curiel at owasp.org> escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>There is nothing stopping defenders from using "attacking" tools to
>>>>> secure their networks, servers, etc. After all we all port scan and
>>>>> vulnerability scan our infrastructure, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Liam
>>>>>
>>>>> I can see majority of the people answering are pen testers. I'm a
>>>>> developer that learn pen testing to so called 'secure' apps
>>>>>
>>>>>  It all depends on the technology and system.You find the holes but
>>>>> this per se does not fix them or even worse, makes you realise that if the
>>>>> developer knew how to code securely from the beginning a lot of headaches
>>>>> could have been avoided.
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently I tested a .NET app build using 3.5 SP1 and no master pages
>>>>> or MVC(available in +4). The so called 'ViewState' did not help against
>>>>> CRSF . In fact the developer has to rebuild the whole thing using MVC +.NET
>>>>> 4.0.if he wants to protect this properly.
>>>>>
>>>>> IS it feasible at this point? Nope. Will the company release the code
>>>>> even with the issue? Yep.
>>>>>
>>>>> pen testing only helps find the wholes. Fixing them is another
>>>>> story.Hacking tools don't help you 'secure' applications. They only help
>>>>> you verify the security built by them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another anecdote. I used to work as RPG developer for a legacy AS/400
>>>>> banking system. The whole things works with cgi (yikes!)
>>>>> The pen tester found a CRSF attack. The architect said: prove it. Then
>>>>> the bug headache came: How to fix this?
>>>>> Yes, it was a headache to fix and it did not happened immediately.In
>>>>> fact that architect 'hates' pen testers...😜
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we should stop this discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I'm starting a survey just to check how many of you work
>>>>> defending applications, I mean like *patching, fixing vulnerabilities
>>>>> in code*, so I might verify if I'm the only developer in OWASP trying
>>>>> to defend applications and that I'm alone among pen testers...
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I'm definitely in the wrong community 😁
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> Johanna
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Liam Smit <liam.smit at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Simon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ZAP needs to be as effective as possible at finding vulnerabilities.
>>>>>> Hobbling it by making it easier to detect makes it less effective. E.g.
>>>>>> some vendor's firewall detects the scan and blocks it. When the actual
>>>>>> exploit comes along it is not detected and the application is compromised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The better it is at detecting vulnerabilities the better it can be
>>>>>> used by defenders to plug the holes. There is nothing stopping defenders
>>>>>> from using "attacking" tools to secure their networks, servers, etc. After
>>>>>> all we all port scan and vulnerability scan our infrastructure, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Liam
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Johanna Curiel
>>>>> OWASP Volunteer
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> OWASP Volunteer
>>>> @eoinkeary
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Johanna Curiel
>>> OWASP Volunteer
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Johanna Curiel
>> OWASP Volunteer
>>
>


-- 
Johanna Curiel
OWASP Volunteer
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