[Owasp-leaders] Bring balance: force verification in scanning tools

johanna curiel curiel johanna.curiel at owasp.org
Tue May 24 22:08:52 UTC 2016


>>I just don't worry about such things.

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing.
<http://www.wisdomquotes.com/quote/edmund-burke-1.html>
- Edmund Burke

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Eoin Keary <eoin.keary at owasp.org> wrote:

> Yep,
> You can't ban anything it's the Internet.
> Anything over used, consumed or abused can be bad.
> I just don't worry about such things.
>
>
> Eoin Keary
> OWASP Volunteer
> @eoinkeary
>
>
>
> On 24 May 2016, at 21:54, johanna curiel curiel <johanna.curiel at owasp.org>
> wrote:
>
> Eoin
>
> I think you got my point. Setting restrictions like verifications are not
> the final solution but I wonder what will happen because whether you like
> it or not, makes it more difficult for everyone to use it, however if you
> are a white hat, you will verify . Blackhats will definitely move to
> another tool than go and adapt it.
>
>
> For those who have not seen the video and read Phineas hacking
> instructions I highly recommended
>
> https://tune.pk/video/6528544/hack
>
> BTW: You can use it as learning video 😝
> I call this lesson:
> *Angels and Demons: Do bad things using ZAP *
>  for the good reasons (if you hate police abuse)😇
>  for the bad reason ,leaking the entire catalan Union data online😈 and
> inviting others to hack back!
>
> VOTE ANARCHIST!!!!!!!
>
>
> http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/06/30/riots-in-the-hague-after-aruban-dies-in-police-custody/
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxp2C6yuTao
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Eoin Keary <eoin.keary at owasp.org> wrote:
>
>> The Internet is evil also. It needs to be banned/restricted!
>> No Internet == no cyber hackers!!
>> 😀
>>
>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 2:52 AM, Mario Robles <mario.robles at owasp.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm
>>> "Hacking Tools" find the bad stuff, the pentester should include how to
>>> fix it in the report then later will meet with the development team to
>>> guide them on how to fix the issues
>>>
>>> I prefer Zap team focusing on how to find more stuff rather than
>>> spending time on generic remediation steps that most likely will be
>>> different for every issue on every development project, that's a complaint
>>> developers have about generic reports right ?
>>>
>>> If the dev team is committed with security then they use tools made for
>>> prevention directly in their IDE, zap is made for detection if their
>>> prevention was not enough
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>> Mario
>>> # Please excuse any typos as this was sent from a mobile device
>>>
>>> El 23 may 2016, a las 1:33 p.m., johanna curiel curiel <
>>> johanna.curiel at owasp.org> escribió:
>>>
>>> >>There is nothing stopping defenders from using "attacking" tools to
>>> secure their networks, servers, etc. After all we all port scan and
>>> vulnerability scan our infrastructure, right?
>>>
>>> Hi Liam
>>>
>>> I can see majority of the people answering are pen testers. I'm a
>>> developer that learn pen testing to so called 'secure' apps
>>>
>>>  It all depends on the technology and system.You find the holes but this
>>> per se does not fix them or even worse, makes you realise that if the
>>> developer knew how to code securely from the beginning a lot of headaches
>>> could have been avoided.
>>>
>>> Recently I tested a .NET app build using 3.5 SP1 and no master pages or
>>> MVC(available in +4). The so called 'ViewState' did not help against CRSF .
>>> In fact the developer has to rebuild the whole thing using MVC +.NET 4.0.if
>>> he wants to protect this properly.
>>>
>>> IS it feasible at this point? Nope. Will the company release the code
>>> even with the issue? Yep.
>>>
>>> pen testing only helps find the wholes. Fixing them is another
>>> story.Hacking tools don't help you 'secure' applications. They only help
>>> you verify the security built by them.
>>>
>>> Another anecdote. I used to work as RPG developer for a legacy AS/400
>>> banking system. The whole things works with cgi (yikes!)
>>> The pen tester found a CRSF attack. The architect said: prove it. Then
>>> the bug headache came: How to fix this?
>>> Yes, it was a headache to fix and it did not happened immediately.In
>>> fact that architect 'hates' pen testers...😜
>>>
>>> I think we should stop this discussion.
>>>
>>> I think I'm starting a survey just to check how many of you work
>>> defending applications, I mean like *patching, fixing vulnerabilities
>>> in code*, so I might verify if I'm the only developer in OWASP trying
>>> to defend applications and that I'm alone among pen testers...
>>>
>>> Then I'm definitely in the wrong community 😁
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Johanna
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Liam Smit <liam.smit at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Simon
>>>>
>>>> ZAP needs to be as effective as possible at finding vulnerabilities.
>>>> Hobbling it by making it easier to detect makes it less effective. E.g.
>>>> some vendor's firewall detects the scan and blocks it. When the actual
>>>> exploit comes along it is not detected and the application is compromised.
>>>>
>>>> The better it is at detecting vulnerabilities the better it can be used
>>>> by defenders to plug the holes. There is nothing stopping defenders from
>>>> using "attacking" tools to secure their networks, servers, etc. After all
>>>> we all port scan and vulnerability scan our infrastructure, right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Liam
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Johanna Curiel
>>> OWASP Volunteer
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> OWASP Volunteer
>> @eoinkeary
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Johanna Curiel
> OWASP Volunteer
>
>


-- 
Johanna Curiel
OWASP Volunteer
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