[Owasp-leaders] Password Reuse Attacks

Michael Coates michael.coates at owasp.org
Thu Jun 23 23:30:47 UTC 2016

Really like this idea Milton.

The "top x lists" seem to be pithy and get people's attention. I wonder if
this is a new list that's needed. Not sure the right name.

Top x
...Organizational commitments for secure software
...business decisions to drive secure software


On Thursday, June 23, 2016, Milton Smith <milton.smith at owasp.org> wrote:

> All,
> +1 for Michael.  There is too much focus on the vulns and not enough focus
> on avoiding writing crappy software.  We need a OWASP 10 list for secure
> product (or similar).  Focus on the positive, building great software.
> Manico comes the closes with top 10 proactive controls.  However, even this
> focuses on -the code-.  We need code approaches but we also need something
> outside of a pure code focus.  Maybe a top 10 secure product list like,
> 1, Appoint a CISO w/board level visibility
> You wouldn't dare diagnose your own medical condition.  What makes you
> think you can make good decisions in security?  Hire an appsec expert with
> proven experience in the appsec space with hands on coding experience - a
> must.  It's hard enough to change the minds of developers as it is.  If you
> don't have the code chops you will never gain respect.  Equally important
> you need exec that can frame technical security problems in terms of
> business risk to boards, smart business leaders, or the public/press, in a
> way they can understand and appreciate.  The bar is high.
> 2, Don't starve security
> The quickest way to kill any security program is starvation.  To be good
> at anything takes investment in resources.  Security budget should be 15%+
> of the overall IT budget when starting a program and taper off as the
> program mature.  Compliance is a separate budget.  (or whatever OWASP
> thinks the best trend is among successful companies)
> 3, Compliance is not security
> The first words out of the Target CEO's mouth was that they passed their
> audit.  Compliances is what you must do.  Security is the love you show
> your customers over and above compliance requirements.  In fact, your
> security leader should not have compliance responsibilities since this is a
> conflict of interest.  The chief of compliance should report to the board
> as well.  (well, we should soften the message slightly but you understand
> my point.  ;o)
> 4, Security is a way of life not a band-aid
> Poor security is more than a code problem - it's a software quality
> problem.  You would be shocked if a doctor didn't wash his hands before
> your surgery.  Security is the same.  Every person and process that
> contributes to the code of your solution is a part of the problem and also
> a part of the solution.  Security must be applied throughout the entire
> software development lifecycle.
> 5, You trained to be an engineer, don't forsake your training
> Software development is a like train careening out of control at many
> companies.  Yes, work quickly, Agile, and be competitive in business but
> not so quickly you forsake your training and common sense.  Put the skills
> you were taught to use.  Many business are constantly commenting on success
> of companies like Google.  If you want to enjoy the type of success Google
> has at your company you must do the things Google does.  Start building
> better software, security will follow, and you will take your company to
> amazing places.  Invest in yourself you would be amazed what you can do!
> (Imagine being an early Blizzard employee trying to convince investors
> World of Warcraft is a good idea.  Someone was able to do this and look at
> the level of success)
> (you insert your ideas here 6-9)
> 10, Educate, educate, educate
> Each role at an organization involved in project creation, development,
> and delivery requires ongoing security training.  Training should be role
> appropriate.  Managers need security training also.  Security is always
> changing and requires constant education.  (I have taken some managers with
> me to BH/DEFCON and their views on security are not the same as well we
> started)
> Anyway, I'm not strong on all these points but raising them as ideas for
> your consideration.  I do think there are some concerns larger than
> coding.  Elevating attention in these areas could be helpful to industry.
> Regards,
> Milton
> On 23 Jun 2016, at 9:41, Michael Coates wrote:
> Leaders,
>> I just sent a related note to the top 10 list, but thought it was
>> warranted
>> for discussion here too.
>> I feel like we have a major gap in our discussion of application risks.
>> Specifically we think about implementation bugs and often forget design
>> flaws.
>> The main example here is password reuse attacks. From my vantage point in
>> my day job (and just watching the news of my peers) this is a major
>> concern.
>> Here are 3 recent stories on this issue
>> http://www.csoonline.com/article/3086942/security/linkedin-data-breach-blamed-for-multiple-secondary-compromises.html
>> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/06/password-re-user-get-to-get-busy/
>> https://blog.twitter.com/2011/keeping-your-account-safe
>> What do others think? Is this getting the focus, discussion and attention
>> it deserves? Are you talking about it at your companies or with your
>> clients?
>> Quick note on the technical side of the password reuse attack
>>    - With password reuse attacks a breach anywhere on the web can mean a
>>    breach of millions of users who reuse passwords
>>    - These attacks are always done with automation 100million breached in
>>    site A with a reusue rate on site B of 1% means 1million breached on
>> site B
>>    - There aren't "easy" answers here - The attacks always come from a
>>    variety of IP addresses. Rate limiting isn't effective because it's 1
>>    attempt per account from a new ip
>>    - You have to rely on additional authentication information or
>>    anti-automation (tradeoffs to both)
>>    - Making this a "user problem" and walking away is not realistic
>> --
>> Michael Coates | @_mwc <https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=_mwc>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
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Michael Coates | @_mwc <https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=_mwc>
OWASP Global Board
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