[Owasp-leaders] [Owasp-topten] OWASP Top 10 Methodology

Rory McCune rory.mccune at owasp.org
Thu Mar 14 16:35:52 UTC 2013


Hi,

I think that there are some things that app. developers /owners could do to
address app DoS (although as you say I think that network DDoS is more
common).

The kind of App DoS I'm thinking of would be where a simple GET or POST
request could trigger a computationally expensive transaction on the
application database or server. So for example something like a large
database query that's triggered by a product search.  Presumably the
application has been tested for standard usage patterns but may not have
been tested for someone making very large numbers of searches quickly.

In terms of mitigation, I'd say that there would be a two phase approach.
 First would be identification of what transactions/requests caused large
processing loads and secondly would be implementing some form of
protection, which could take the form of basic rate limiting for a given
transaction or perhaps at a more advanced level detecting an unusual usage
pattern (i.e. ordinary users browse from the login page through to the
search page and then search once, whereas these IPs are hitting the search
page repeatedly without any other page visit) and then blocking/limiting
those IPs in relation to those transactions.

The advantage of defending this at the application layer is that there's
likely to be more visibility/understanding of what constitutes
unusual behavior and also what the high processing requirement transactions
are.

Cheers

Rory


On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Dave Wichers <dave.wichers at owasp.org>wrote:

> Hey everyone. Related to DDOS, (Today’s latest event is:
> http://www.bankinfosecurity.com/ddos-6-banks-hit-on-same-day-a-5607), do
> we have any stats/metrics on how many DDOS attacks are at the application
> level vs. the network level?****
>
> ** **
>
> The OWASP Top 10 is about Web Apps, not network security. And I know if
> they DDOS the server and take out the app, then it’s an app problem, but is
> there anything the APP itself can do about the most common DDOS attacks?**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> I’m trying to figure out, if we added DDOS to the Top 10, what advice we
> could provide to developers/app owners on how to mitigate this risk? And if
> all the advice is at the network level, because that’s the best / easiest
> place to defend against this, does that belong in a top 10 list for apps?
> Maybe/Maybe not.****
>
> ** **
>
> I’m trying to encourage discussion here. I’m not saying I don’t think it
> belongs in the Top 10. This is tricky/complex issue worth discussing.****
>
> ** **
>
> -Dave****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Ryan Barnett [mailto:ryan.barnett at owasp.org]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:00 AM
> *To:* Dave Wichers
> *Cc:* Michael Coates; OWASP Leaders; OWASP TopTen
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Owasp-leaders] OWASP Top 10 Methodology****
>
> ** **
>
> FYI - I have added links to sample attack reports to this page -****
>
>
> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Top_10_2013/ProjectMethodology#Suggested_Enhancements
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> -Ryan****
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Dave Wichers <dave.wichers at owasp.org>
> wrote:****
>
> Thanks Ryan for taking the lead on this step of the methodology. I’m very
> interested in seeing what the various attack metric sources we can get our
> hands on say about the prevalence of different kinds of attacks.****
>
>  ****
>
> One comment about the prevalence factor in the Top 10 is that its
> definition is:****
>
>  ****
>
> The likelihood that an attacker would successfully attack the application
> given this vulnerability.  I could imagine some attack metrics only measure
> attempts to attack (like random DOSing, or random attempts at SQL
> injection/XSS) but don’t or can’t measure the number of actually successful
> attacks.****
>
>  ****
>
> And I think the likelihood of success is pretty important. Take Reflected
> XSS for example. It’s pretty prevalent, it’s pretty easy to find, but it
> can be hard to successfully pull off.****
>
>  ****
>
> Don’t get me wrong, I think knowing what attack attempts are actually
> occurring out there in the wild is great information to know. But I’m not
> sure if that data is an exact match to what we consider the likelihood of
> actual successful attack in the Top 10 as its defined today.****
>
>  ****
>
> -Dave****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* owasp-leaders-bounces at lists.owasp.org [mailto:
> owasp-leaders-bounces at lists.owasp.org] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Barnett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 05, 2013 9:25 AM
> *To:* Michael Coates; OWASP Leaders; OWASP TopTen****
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Owasp-leaders] OWASP Top 10 Methodology****
>
>  ****
>
> With regards to "Additional data sources to be considered" Enhancement
> item – I am contacting various vendors that I listed to try and get access
> to web attack metrics.  I have heard back from both Akamai and Incapsula
> and they are willing to share so I will work with them.****
>
>  ****
>
> I will update the group when I have more info.****
>
>  ****
>
> -Ryan****
>
>  ****
>
> *From: *Michael Coates <michael.coates at owasp.org>
> *Date: *Saturday, March 2, 2013 7:15 PM
> *To: *OWASP Leaders <owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org>, OWASP TopTen <
> owasp-topten at lists.owasp.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Owasp-leaders] OWASP Top 10 Methodology****
>
>  ****
>
> Leaders,****
>
> The OWASP Top 10 Methodology wiki page (as described in the below email)
> is now live - https://owasp.org/index.php/Top_10_2013/ProjectMethodology**
> **
>
> As you'll see in the first line of the wiki - "The goal of this page is to
> provide the baseline of knowledge to begin a thoughtful conversation of
> enhancements and changes to continue growing the OWASP top 10."****
>
> Next Steps:****
>
> - Have ideas on how we can enhance the methodology? Please add it here
> https://owasp.org/index.php/Top_10_2013/ProjectMethodology#Suggested_Enhancements
> ****
>
> - We'll then begin making changes based on these ideas****
>
> Overall Goal:****
>
> Increase participation, enhance methodology, and continue to grow the
> excellent OWASP top 10 resource ****
>
> Thanks for everyone's hard work so far on the Top 10 and all the good
> ideas that have been floating around. I'm confident we can all work
> together as a community to make this next top 10 awesome.  I look forward
> to continuing this conversation with everyone.****
>
>
> ****
>
>
> --
> Michael Coates | OWASP | @_mwc
> michael-coates.blogspot.com****
>
>  ****
>
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Michael Coates <michael.coates at owasp.org>
> wrote:****
>
> Leaders & Top 10 Enthusiasts,****
>
> Dave and I had a great conversation today about the Top 10 and some of the
> questions that have been posed by many in our owasp community.
>
> We're going to build a wiki page that describes the overall project
> methodology of the owasp top 10, what's currently happening, suggestions
> for improvements, and an FAQ.****
>
> The project has continually grown over the various releases and has
> successfully attracted more worldwide attention. As we've grown as an
> organization we've seen many new ways to further open the top 10 and invite
> greater participation.
>
> This methodology wiki page will help clarify the activities to date and
> provide a feedback channel to continue growing.****
>
> Please look for this page later this week. It would have been great for me
> to include the completed page with this email, but it will take a day or
> two and I wanted to send this info to the list now.
>
>
>
> Thanks!****
>
>
> ****
>
>
> --
> Michael Coates | OWASP | @_mwc
> michael-coates.blogspot.com****
>
>  ****
>
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> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders ****
>
> ** **
>
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