[Owasp-leaders] Membership funds

Tobias tobias.gondrom at owasp.org
Fri Jun 7 10:10:46 UTC 2013

I think Yune and others are making very good points.

We need to make the process or reimbursing chapter expenses practical
and easy, otherwise it is understandable that the chapters don't spend
their money. That may be better documentation or streamlining the process.
It might be different by country whether that is best with individual
chapter bank accounts or via transfers from our central accounts. For
very small chapters (<100USD), it might be better to run without the
formal red tape of a bank account as there is some overhead with
managing the bank accounts for the chapter plus costs that can come with

To help chapters reimburse and overcome any red tape should in my view
be key tasks that the proposed chapter FTE should support. Alongside
with membership drives.

Best regards, Tobias

On 07/06/13 02:43, Yune Sung wrote:
> This is Yune from Korea chapter.
> Let me explain Korean situation because. Korea is kind of different
> from western chapters. Many of people and companies are not easy to go
> to OWASP membership because they think OWASP HQ looks very far from them.
> So I would suggest a new way of funding OWASP chapters from OWASP HQ
> below;
> 1. I don't care about split ratio which is 60/40 or 25/75, but in
> Chapter perspective, we want that fund back to chapter banking account
> annually based on the membership amount because when we reimburse
> every time, this is not easy though to each other.
> 2. If chapter get funds locally from individual and corporate
> membership, I want to split this fund into 70/30 (Chapter and HQ) or
> something. When we try to make translation project we are looking for
> some project sponsors. So we will try to put sponsor banner in the
> translated docs. And we can locally collect members and corporate member.
> OWASP is getting bigger and bigger, so it's time that we need to set
> up new scheme.
> Thank you very much:-)
> Best regards,
> Yune 
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 11:27 PM, Sarah Baso <sarah.baso at owasp.org
> <mailto:sarah.baso at owasp.org>> wrote:
>     Eoin (and others) -
>     I have tried to capture some of the comments received on the board
>     list about this below to get the conversation up to speed. Thanks
>     to everyone for your constructive input so far (and sorry in
>     advance if I missed anyone.
>     *Eoin Keary *
>     Maybe richer chapters get a sliding scale %
>     This will encourage the dormant funds to be used.
>     *
>     *
>     *
>     *
>     *Tom Brennan*
>     Many of the board members are or have been chapter leaders so
>     leading by example is important here.  Many staff have no concept
>     of what it takes to run a chapter+ this is the purpose of the
>     board list discussion.. Hence discuss + talk on the monthly call
>      Today there is a split on memberships BOTH individual and corporate
>     60/40 Split
>     $50=$20 per chapter
>     $5000=$2000 per chapter
>     So from the chapters perspective you have two options 
>     1. Enable local chapters to set there own local membership fee and
>     non-profit incorporate status 
>     2. Change the global percentage 40/60 25/75 or other
>     Either way the chapters are the local face of owasp in the
>     community and that needs to rewarded and highlighted.
>      "Elimination" was a poor choice but clearly has gotten the
>     attention look forward to the board call 
>     Chapters can pack up and become joes InfoSec club but that's not
>     what is in the best interest of the community. But this does and
>     will happen with to much micromanagement and those interested in
>     robinhood asset seizure ;) a balance is needed - starts with a
>     telephone call to the chapter to say SPEND IT on the mission
>     <insert spend guidelines>
>     *
>     *
>     *
>     *
>     *
>     *
>     *Eoin Keary*
>     I am also against "Eliminate Foundation/Chapter or Project Split
>     on Individual Memberships".
>     *Seba Deleersnyder*
>     I am against the proposed "Eliminate Foundation/Chapter or Project
>     Split on Individual Memberships".
>     For 2 reasons:
>     1) chapter are our "feet on the street" and main drivers to push
>     individual membership, the current split is a great incentive for
>     the chapters
>     2) this provides much needed income for the smaller (or poorer)
>     chapters
>     I recommend rethinking on how to activate the dormant chapter budget.
>       * Focus on the chapters with a high dormant budget
>       * Challenge these chapters on spending / budget plan
>       * Ask if they can adopt one or more chapters or projects and
>         donate some of their budget and support to these
>     *Andy Willingham*
>     I agree with the point that eliminating the split is a bad idea.
>     If there are chapters with large balances then it would be a good
>     idea to talk with them individually rather than eliminate the
>     split. I would imagine that many chapters have low balances and
>     part of that is because they are in small population areas and
>     actually use their funds for chapter activities. Chapters that are
>     in a large population areas have lots of companies to get to
>     sponsor their meetings and don't need the money to buy pizza or
>     pay for a venue. They also usually have a higher percentage of
>     members and renewals. Don't punish all for the success of others.*
>     *
>     *Josh Sokol*
>       * Proposed policy to eliminate individual membership split -
>         100% to Foundation. **This needs details fleshed out and
>         discussion, but is a starting point to raise awareness into
>         the large amount of money that is sitting in the chapters and
>         project funds (over $260,000 USD).
>     Seriously, WTF?  Who do you think is out there pimping memberships
>     to begin with?  Looking at the current memberships, the Austin
>     Chapter holds more membership than any other chapter other than
>     NYC.  Know why?  Because we require them for LASCON attendance in
>     order to 1) Add something of value to becoming an OWASP member and
>     2) raise funds for the chapter.  If you eliminate the chapter
>     split, then you eliminate all incentive for a chapter to promote
>     membership.  This isn't raising awareness about money that is
>     sitting dormant.  This is taking away one of the very few methods
>     that chapters have to raise money.  Those funds are pretty piddly
>     for the chapters that are the problem here, but are huge for the
>     ones that have next to nothing in the bank.  If you have an issue
>     with the way (or lack of) chapters are spending their money, then
>     why not just take it up with the chapters that you take issue
>     with?  If those funds are lying dormant, then ask the leaders what
>     they plan on doing with the money.  Make them provide a budget. 
>     Don't punish the chapters who have nothing because of a few that
>     aren't spending what they have.
>     Above you say that there's over $260k that is "sitting", but
>     according to the Scoreboard there's less than $230k total between
>     both Chapters and projects:
>     https://docs.google.com/a/owasp.org/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0Atu4kyR3ljftdEdQWTczbUxoMUFnWmlTODZ2ZFZvaXc&output=html
>     To give you another perspective on this, out of 196 chapters and
>     projects, only 41 (21%) have a balance above $1k.  Only 13 (7%)
>     have a balance above $5k.  And only 5 (3%) have a balance above
>     $10k.  The ones with the money don't have it due to memberships. 
>     They have it because they either ran a conference or found
>     sponsors.  Wanna know who gets affected by this proposal? 
>     Pakistan, Paraiba, Kuwait, Florianopolis, 
>     Curitiba, St. Louis, Campinas, Mexico City, Goiania, Ypisilanti,
>     and the list goes on.  These are areas where the chapter leaders
>     are already struggling and now you're eliminating what little
>     resources they have.  
>     I continue to be concerned by the way that the Board views the
>     chapters.  They are the lifeblood of this organization.  They are
>     our ability to reach out to areas we couldn't otherwise touch. 
>     They are our future volunteers.  They host our sponsors.  They run
>     the conferences that generate money for OWASP to run.  It's not
>     easy to run a chapter and it's often a completely thankless job. 
>     Please don't make the lives of these chapter leaders even more
>     difficult by taking away their already limited funding sources.
>     Regards,
>     Sarah Baso
>     -- 
>     Executive Director
>     OWASP Foundation
>     sarah.baso at owasp.org <mailto:sarah.baso at owasp.org>
>     +1.312.869.2779
>     On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 7:21 AM, Eoin <eoin.keary at owasp.org
>     <mailto:eoin.keary at owasp.org>> wrote:
>         Hello leaders,
>         There is a foundation proposal to remove the split 60/40 from
>         the individual membership dues. 100% if the funding goes to
>         the foundation.
>         The funds are to be used to hire additional staff but also
>         what prompts this is the lack of spending.....
>         Chapters simply are not spending their funds and we have
>         0000's building up in owasp bank accounts, all ring fenced and
>         going nowhere!!
>         Please share your thoughts with myself and the board.
>         Eoin Keary
>         Owasp Global Board
>         +353 87 977 2988 <tel:%2B353%2087%20977%202988>
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