[Owasp-leaders] Why I don't vote and neither should you...

Tue Nov 6 01:12:32 UTC 2012

VOTE RON PAUL!!

Sorry... wrong thread :)

Sincerely,
Eric Sheridan
(twitter) @eric_sheridan
(blog) http://ericsheridan.blogspot.com

On 11/5/12 7:50 PM, Dennis Groves wrote:
> Eoin,
> 
> Thank you for your respectful reply.
> 
> Obviously, I do make reference to "American politics" - and it is
> election day Tuesday in the USA.
> 
> However, I also think OWASP is a very progressive community, and I
> constantly think about how we can make it better. I am not saying the
> OWASP elections are rigged, or false or invalid or than anything
> untoward is going on; I do however think that there is substantial
> scientific literature proving that voting actually does not work; at
> least not the way we are taught to believe it does.
> 
> I don't have any solutions, as I am not a political scientist. However,
> I am very excited about the ideas presented in Open Source Democracy
> <http://scriptogr.am/dennis-groves/post/open-source-democracy>,
> Bettermeans <https://github.com/Bettermeans/bettermeans> and the OWASP
> Initiatives.
> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Initiatives_Global_Strategic_Focus>
> They all seem to be very practical solutions that improve the community
> through greater contribution and participation. I often wonder what the
> Romans would have come up with if they would have had access to the
> technology that we do.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Eoin <eoin.keary at owasp.org
> <mailto:eoin.keary at owasp.org>> wrote:
> 
>     For me, I live in a republic. People died so I could vote. That's
>     what drives me. But I don't think political debate is a place on an
>     OWASP list. Fair?
> 
> 
>     Eoin Keary
>     Owasp Global Board
>     +353 87 977 2988 <tel:%2B353%2087%20977%202988>
> 
> 
>     On 5 Nov 2012, at 22:33, Yvan Boily <yvanboily at gmail.com
>     <mailto:yvanboily at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>>     Hi Dennis,
>>
>>     I don't know if anyone followed up off list, and I thought about
>>     not responding, but your post is still bugging me several days later.
>>
>>     I understand all of the different reasons why someone shouldn't
>>     vote, or why the democratic system in most countries that allow
>>     elections are flawed, and to be honest, as a Canadian watching the
>>     US election, it is, for me, a spectator sport (sadly, since our
>>     economy is closely tied to the US economy in many ways).
>>
>>     The problem is very neatly summed up by Winston Churchill in his
>>     speech in 1947 "/No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
>>     all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst
>>     form of government except all those other forms that have been
>>     tried from time to time./"
>>
>>     My problem with it is that the people are presented with an
>>     opportunity to influence change through a vote, and as flawed a
>>     system as it is, it, along with the courts, provide the only
>>     mechanisms that can be used to select leadership and affect
>>     policy.  If all of the smart people who understand how to apply
>>     game theory and are aware of the shenanigans fail to get involved
>>     and motivate people, then ultimately all of the not-so-smart
>>     people who can be swayed by talking points and stump speeches will
>>     be the mass that choose the direction of the government.
>>
>>     I know the US election is tomorrow, and new information or
>>     activity at this point would be ineffective, but it is just not
>>     practical to sit on the side-lines and argue against the system. 
>>     If you have the right to vote, you owe it to all of the people who
>>     don't have that right to exercise it, no matter how flawed the
>>     system is.  You don't have to be a politician, but there is more
>>     to democratic society than just casting a vote; for the society to
>>     thrive it requires in engaging in political discourse with friends
>>     and family, and promoting and living the ideals that its members
>>     would aspire to, and it takes smart, principled people engaging in
>>     the political process.
>>
>>     Sometimes it is good to leave the academic discussions in the
>>     Ivory Tower, do the practical thing, and go out and vote!
>>
>>
>>     On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Dennis Groves
>>     <dennis.groves at owasp.org <mailto:dennis.groves at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         http://scriptogr.am/dennis-groves/post/why-i-dont-vote-and-neither-should-you.
>>
>>         -- 
>>         -- 
>>         Dennis Groves <http://about.me/dennis.groves>, MSc
>>         dennis.groves at owasp.org <mailto:dennis.groves at owasp.org>
>>
>>         <http://www.owasp.org/>
>>
>>         /This work is licensed under the Creative Commons
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>>         letter to Creative Commons, 444 Castro Street, Suite 900,
>>         Mountain View, California, 94041, USA./
>>
>>
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>>
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> Dennis Groves <http://about.me/dennis.groves>, MSc
> dennis.groves at owasp.org <mailto:dennis.groves at owasp.org>
> 
> <http://www.owasp.org/>
> 
> /This work is licensed under the Creative Commons
> Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License. To view a copy
> of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/
> or send a letter to Creative Commons, 444 Castro Street, Suite 900,
> Mountain View, California, 94041, USA./
> 
> 
> 
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