[Owasp-leaders] Fwd: Stepping down as Board Member

John Wilander john.wilander at owasp.org
Mon Feb 14 12:47:09 EST 2011

Andre, I said I wanted *two* board members to write production code weekly.
Not all board members.

Regarding production code and its definition ... Can you do the work of the
developers we try to reach out to? The guys who implement and maintain
Twitter, Facebook, GMail, PayPal, Amazon, and YouTube – could you join their
team and take on tasks from the backlog? At least at 80% speed? Are you
performing such tasks on a weekly basis? Then you fit my frame.

OWASP has no shortage on pentesters (proven by raised hands at the summit)
so I have full confidence in that we'll find one or two pentesters who can
run for the board too. Since pentesters build up a large part of our
community I would be happy to have one or two on the board.

The main reason I'm stressing the importance of coders on the board is
developer outreach. Right now we're failing in one of our core missions. I
believe hands-on coding among the board members will help solve this.

(If there's a silent majority out there either thinking I'm totally wrong or
right – please speak up. Don't let the talkative, myself included, decide
for you.)


2011/2/14 Andre Gironda <andreg at gmail.com>

> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:06 AM, John Wilander <john.wilander at owasp.org>
> wrote:
> > Eoin, if you write production code weekly you're on my list of coders for
> > sure. Did not know that. Cred.
> >> So you are of the opinion that writing code is of paramount importance
> >> regardless of if its done right?
> >
> > The "done right" addon can be applied to guidelines and policies too =>
> > redundant rhetorics. I also believe I wrote "production code" which in my
> > view says something about quality.
> It says nothing about quality. You seem obsessed with this "production
> code" thing, but you don't define it. So if I'm a dev-test coder, and
> only write code that works in integration, then somehow I'm not
> qualified to be an OWASP board member? What if I write 7 kloc a day
> and the production coders I work with only change tens of loc's per
> day? What if all of their success in refactorings are based on my test
> automation? What if the production coders are constantly making
> mistakes and a quality-oriented person is covering for them --
> correcting mistakes and making that shipped code actually work from a
> user perspective?
> > I don't believe in non-coders teaching coders how to code better. Many
> > outreach attempts fail because we're not on the right level. Web 1.5 code
> > snippets on a Powerpoint slide won't cut it. "Demo or die".
> I disagree with this point. Customers and users always teach coders
> how to code better. Quality engineers even moreso.
> > As I said above, as long as you're writing production code weekly you
> > understand coders and can take on that role on the board. Good!
> I think there is room on the board for more than one type of person.
> This seems to over-favor a certain type of application developer.
> -Andre
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John Wilander, https://twitter.com/johnwilander
Chapter co-leader OWASP Sweden, http://owaspsweden.blogspot.com
<http://owaspsweden.blogspot.com>Co-organizer Global Summit,
<http://www.owasp.org/index.php/Summit_2011>Conf Comm,
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