[Owasp-leaders] Commercial delivery of courses based on OWASP materials

Tom Brennan tomb at owasp.org
Fri May 21 20:47:05 EDT 2010


Perhaps "OWASP community supporters"  vs . "OWASP commercial service"



On May 13, 2010, at 8:20 PM, Mike Boberski wrote:

> There are a number of other comparable examples, ranging from Common Criteria, FIPS 140, to Drupal.
> 
> There are NO mechanisms that allows a listed company to interfere with any OWASP project or function, exactly as there are none for job listings. 
> 
> The approach taken has been painstakingly designed to align with OWASP's mission.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
> This program (OWASP commercial services) totally freaks me out. It just doesn't seem right to me on a number of levels.
> 
> But, the core mission of OWASP is to make application security visible - and companies are needing deeper solutions that Open Source alone cannot provide today.
> 
> So even though I have personal/emotional reservations to this initiative - I do objectively support it and hope it stays something positive for our community.
> 
> - Jim
> 
> 
>> We already have in place of course the brand usage policy.
>> 
>> I think this is not so complicated as all that.
>> 
>> This is no different than the jobs page. It is locked and administered in the same way.
>> 
>> All that we're shooting here for is a phone book, basically, with a little bit of value add by compelling 1-2 sentence description of approach.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 7:05 PM, dinis cruz <dinis.cruz at owasp.org> wrote:
>> Hi OWASP Leaders (CCing OWASP Global Education Committee, OWASP Connections Committee and Mike Boberski (who is trying to figure out the best way to implement the OWASP Commercial Services idea))
>> 
>> Question for you. 
>> 
>> Given the following scenario:
>> 
>> "...
>> Company XYZ is delivering commercially (i.e. paid for)  OWASP related courses, such as for example: "OWASP Top 10", "Using OWASP WebGoat", "Performing security assessments using the OWASP Testing Guide" , "How to use OpenSAMM in your organization", "OWASP ESAPI" , "OWASP ASVS", etc...   
>> 
>>  - these courses are independently delivered at "NON OWASP organized" events (for example a developer's Conference or bespoke training sessions)
>>  - attendees have to pay to attend (i.e. these are NOT FREE or 'OWASP only' events like the one we organized and delivered at the OWASP London Chapter last month)  
>>  - there is no mandatory direct financial return for OWASP (any payments back to OWASP (if any at all) would have to be made at the discretion of the organizing party)
>> 
>> ..."
>> 
>> Given that a large part of the potential (paying) audience for these courses is part of the existing  OWASP community, namely the OWASP Mailing lists and WIKI viewers, the organizing party would be very interested to advertise to target OWASP project the course details (curriculum, trainer, delivery date, price, location, etc...)
>> 
>> Since this is a new area for OWASP, we have to make sure we handle this in a way that is accepted/respected by our leaders and community.
>> 
>> So my question to you is:  
>> 
>> What would anacceptable behaviour for the individuals or companies organizing (and profiting) with these courses? (see Variation+Options below)
>> 
>> Variation A: the course is delivered by the Project's Leader as an INDEPENDENT Trainer (this could also be a respected member of the OWASP Community who: is an active/past contributor; is respected by its peers; and is known to be very knowledgeable on the course's topic))
>> 
>> Should he/she be able to: 
>> 
>>    Option 1: Buy advertisement space on www.owasp.org (i.e. the banner that shows up at the top of the home page and the local chapters)
>>    Option 2: Send an email with the course's details to the respective OWASP mailing list (i.e. Top-10, WebGoat, Testing Guide, openSamm, ESAPI, ASVS). Assume that this is done with 'good taste' (i.e no  'snake oil' or super-sales pitch)
>>    Option 3: Include a mention to it at the next OWASP Newsletter
>>    Option 4: Put a direct link to it from the respective OWASP Project (maybe on a section dedicated to these type of events)
>>    Option 5: Put a direct link from a Training page on the OWASP Commercial Services section of the OWASP website
>> 
>> 
>> Variation B: the course is delivered by the Project's Leader as a hired employee/contractor for a 3rd party company
>> 
>> (same 5 Options from Variation A)
>> 
>> 
>> Variation C: the course is delivered by an existing OWASP Corporate Member or Education Supporter (Company, University, etc..)
>> 
>> (same 5 Options from Variation A)
>> 
>> 
>> Variation D: the course is delivered by an a Governmental Organization that is involved with OWASP (for example the Brazilian Government who sponsored last year's OWASP Conference in Brazil)
>> 
>> (same 5 Options from Variation A)
>> 
>> 
>> Variation D: the course is delivered by an a Governmental Organization that is NOT part of the OWASP Community 
>> 
>> (same 5 Options from Variation A)
>> 
>> 
>> Variation E: the course is delivered by an a Industry Body  that is NOT part of the OWASP Community (for example lets say that the PCI Council decided to sell (and profit) from the delivery of OWASP Top 10 courses)
>> 
>> (same 5 Options from Variation A)
>> 
>> 
>> Variation F: the course is delivered by a company/individual that is NOT part of the OWASP Community (i.e. not a member, trainer is not an OWASP Leader, nobody has really heard of them before)
>> 
>> (same 5 Options from Variation A)
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Taking into account that we want as many people to be exposed to OWASP materials and that there should be a direct relationship between the success of these courses and the market penetration of the affected OWASP Projects .....  from your point of view, which Variation+Options listed above:
>> 
>>    i) are compatible with OWASP's values/independence and SHOULD be allowed (but monitored to prevent abuses)
>>    ii) are NOT compatible with OWASP's values and SHOULD NOT be allowed
>>   iii) should only be allowed with 'somebody' (GEC, OWASP Board, Project leader) permission / validation
>>   iv) should be allowed, BUT with the information located at a very specific locations (for example what happens with the the OWASP Job Board or the OWASP Commercial Services)
>> 
>> Looking forward to hearing your answers and points of view
>> 
>> Dinis Cruz
>> OWASP Board Member
>> 
>> 
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>>   
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jim Manico
> OWASP Podcast Host/Producer
> OWASP ESAPI Project Manager
> http://www.manico.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
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