[Owasp-leaders] developers, Developers, DEVELOPERS!

Jason Li jason.li at owasp.org
Thu Dec 9 15:31:53 EST 2010


Agreed.

We can yell until we're blue in the face about how developers should do this
or that.

While in principle, we might be right, in order to promote fundamental
change in developers at large, I think we need to engage them on their
terms.

If that means letting developers continue using the same "insecure" patterns
they're using now and injecting some intermediary control to make it secure;
or emulating a more formal SDLC process so businesses are more comfortable
using our projects; or working going to developer conferences and presenting
approachable talks about security awareness; then that's what we need to do
to improve the state of application security. We need to play the game on
developer's turf where they feel comfortable and have home-field advantage.

If I recall correctly, the Global Conferences Committee draft agenda for
2011 includes developer outreach.

We're working on the Global Projects Committee draft agenda with the goal of
making projects more developer friendly in mind as well.

-Jason

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:

> I think the answer is, **we** go-to **them**, not the other way around. WE
> change our methods so we develop with more formal SDLC process in our
> projects. WE apply for and give talks at developer-centric conferences like
> Java-One and so on.  Etc.
>
>
>
> The secret is to infiltrate the developer world with our WebAppSec majesty.
> J
>
>
>
> - Jim
>
>
>
> PS: Infiltrate!
>
>
>
> *From:* owasp-leaders-bounces at lists.owasp.org [mailto:
> owasp-leaders-bounces at lists.owasp.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Coates
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 09, 2010 9:51 AM
>
> *To:* owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Owasp-leaders] developers, Developers, DEVELOPERS!
>
>
>
> Definitely and the hard work is very appreciated by all in OWASP and the
> many users of the tools.  But how do we get more developers at the chapter
> meetings and the conferences.  Its one thing to talk about security with
> security professionals, but another to be able to work directly with the
> developers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael Coates
>
> OWASP
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Jim Manico wrote:
>
>
>
> There are plenty of active developers (primarily Java dev's) who volunteer
> for OWASP building secure coding libraries!
>
>
>
> AntiSamy was authored by Jason Li and Arshan D. This is a fairly complex
> piece of code for HTML policy validation.
>
>
>
> CSRFGuard was written by Eric Sheridan, its a JavaScript tool, primarily
> for injecting security tokens into HTML pages for CSRF defense.
>
>
>
> ESAPI was started by Jeff Williams and is managed by myself, Chris Beef and
> Kevin Wall. Its an epic secure coding library that covers a wide range of
> secure coding needs. There are about a dozen active dev's in the Java
> project alone.
>
>
>
> And there are more.
>
>
>
> The dev's at OWASP tend to be more on the introverted side, but they are
> here and participate by •doing•.
>
>
>
> Do you how crazy tough it is to get smart dev's to participate in open
> source projects? We are lucky that OWASP has so many under the hood donating
> time for us...
>
>
> -Jim Manico
>
> http://manico.net
>
>
> On Dec 9, 2010, at 4:44 AM, Grzegorz Bugaj <gregbugaj at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> I think this is very common trend that I see here In Oklahoma US, as a
> developer I am trying to cater more towards developers instead security
> professionals to get them involved. I think the problem here is that most
> developers are not very security conscious people, also many of them is
> not aware of the fact that there are organizations like OWASP that could
> help them.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
> Greg Bugaj, SCJP
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* psiinon <psiinon at gmail.com>
> *To:* owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org
> *Sent:* Thu, December 9, 2010 4:06:33 AM
> *Subject:* [Owasp-leaders] Developers Vs Security professionals
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I'll freely admit that I'm relatively new to the world of OWASP, but I
> get the distinct impression that theres a significant involvement from
> security professions and much less involvement from people from the
> software development side.
> I gave a talk last night at the OWASP Leeds / Northern UK meeting last
> night in Manchester, and to test this theory I asked which of these 2
> areas people worked in.
> Only one person (out of ~25) worked in software development, and they
> were an ex colleague of mine who came to see what I was up to!
> Do you think this is common?
> And if it is, should we be worried about it?
> I'm sure we will all agree that if we cant get developers interested
> in security then we'll just be firefighting all of the time.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Simon
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