[Owasp-leaders] Creating OWASP 4.0!

James McGovern JMcGovern at virtusa.com
Thu Dec 9 10:41:19 EST 2010

Ralph, your sentence: "Regulation such as PCI has been helpful, but it
has been difficult for it to be effective given that Web App Security
isn't very measurable by the average auditor." What if we could leverage
this as both an education and PR opportunity? Imagine a marketing
campaign where we publicly stated that all OWASP conferences are free to
PCI QSA's! Additionally, what if we used some of our common training
curricula to have a one-day class just for auditors on how to understand


James McGovern
Insurance SBU 

Virtusa Corporation

100 Northfield Drive, Suite 305 | Windsor, CT | 06095

Phone:  860 688 9900 Ext:  1037 | Facsimile:  860 688 2890  

  <http://www.virtusa.com/>    <http://www.virtusa.com/blog/>   


From: owasp-leaders-bounces at lists.owasp.org
[mailto:owasp-leaders-bounces at lists.owasp.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Durkee
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:18 PM
To: owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org
Subject: Re: [Owasp-leaders] Creating OWASP 4.0!


I've been thinking about the state of Web App Sec and how it's broken
and what we can do about it. We've made some progress some areas like
sql injection and malicious file execution, but most of the progress has
been in large organizations and regulated industries, while the small
and medium size businesses make up a majority of the market. And while
we've made progress in some areas, we're not keeping up with the rate at
which new web apps, and new web technologies are deployed. So given that
we're not keeping up, coupled with the targeting and attack techniques
continuing to get more sophisticated, I believe the over all risk
picture is worse now then when we started.    That doesn't mean we've
been a failure, I think we've been very successful in many ways, but the
web continues to be less safe, and I think we need a different approach.

Regulation such as PCI has been helpful, but it has been difficult for
it to be effective given that Web App Security isn't very measurable by
the average auditor.  David Rice's presentation which paralleled on the
evolution of regulation was insightful, and I think somewhat fits, with
a couple of exceptions.  The final phase to self-regulation is ideal,
and is not complete and I don't think will ever be complete.  Large
corporations can make a marketing campaign out of being green, and get
dollar value out of it , but that's not going to be cost effective for
the small and medium size businesses, and for some, you will always need
some regulation because it's a cruel world, after all.     However, to
apply effective regulation to the secure web applications industry, it
needs to be measurable like pollution.   I agree that the market will
continue to be "broken" until we can make security measurable and
visible, as Jeff and so many others are always on about.  I think the
security labeling idea from  Jeff's AppSec DC talk, is maybe a little
hokey, and little hard to see how we can make it work, but I don't see
too many other ways forward at this point, for making security visible.
I'd like to see this as a part of OWASP 4.0 discussion.  So what do you

GCC, Rochester OWASP

On 12/7/2010 11:36 PM, Jeff Williams wrote: 

Hi everyone,


In my mind, OWASP 1.0 was pre-wiki with lots of great work and a less
great infrastructure.  OWASP 2.0 was establishing the 501c3, putting in
the wiki, and getting lots of great projects started. OWASP 3.0 started
with the Summit in Portugal when we created the new committees and has
focused on creating thriving projects instead of standalone tools.
Thank you for all of your efforts growing a fun, civil, productive


I reach out to you now to ask you to take some time and think about what
OWASP should become.  The time has come to measure our success not by
the number of members, projects, and conferences, but by whether we are
succeeding at making the world's software more secure. It's time to get
our message and strategy to the next level.




If you consider yourself an OWASP Leader, won't you take a few minutes
of quiet time and propose a few ideas for how OWASP can retool,
reorganize, refocus, and revamp itself to really achieve our mission?
We will rip, mix, and burn these ideas into a new strategy for OWASP at
the Portugal Summit.  I encourage you to check out the resort and all
the plans happening right now at 


Here are some ideas to get you started.


We bootstrap several application security ecosystems around key
technologies like mobile, cloud, REST

We reach out to governments around the world to help them push for
application security

We raise money to fund real security enhancements to tools, browsers,
protocols (e.g. OpenSSL)

We make the OWASP materials more usable by providing a "user" site and
keep the wiki for development

We invest in marketing AppSec - How do we scale David Rice and the
"greening" of AppSec

We continue our education initiative - academies, college chapters,
videos, curriculum

We continue our browser initiative and do whatever it takes to get the
browsers and frameworks talking

We invest in getting in front of new technologies like HTML5

We launch a no-holds barred XSS eradication campaign

We create a set of objective AppSec *market* metrics that quantify the
state of our art

We continue to push on creating standards



We need your ideas NOW.  Get yourself on the list!




In one week of thinking, arguing, coding, hacking, and writing we are
going to accomplish more than the rest of the world's appsec efforts
combined.  We'll see you in Portugal ready to rock.  Thanks!





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