[Owasp-leaders] Mailing list madness

Helen Gao owasp.li at gmail.com
Fri Sep 18 14:06:09 EDT 2009


Hello.

Just want to share with you my test result with Google Group.  I added 35
members to a test group.  The request was approved in about 5 hours.

Just let me know if you need help with more testing.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Tom Brennan - OWASP <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:

> Nothing changes until there is a plan approved to do so.
>
>
> On 9/17/09, dinis cruz <dinis.cruz at owasp.org> wrote:
> > I really don't think we should move the lists before we see google groups
> in
> > action.
> > Like I said on an earlier email:
> >
> > "..why don't we pick a couple projects (let's say 5) and try this there?
> > Pravir suggested SAMM, I can add the OWASP O2 Platform, let's get a
> couple
> > more projects and try this over there (Google Groups).
> >
> > If it works, we can then think about how to move other 100s of mailing
> lists
> > (and ideally its archives)..."
> >
> > Dinis
> >
> > 2009/9/17 Helen Gao <owasp.li at gmail.com>
> >
> >> I agree with Eoin.  There are a couple of things we need to consider to
> >> avoid confusion.
> >>
> >> If we are adding a large number of people, then delay is likely because
> >> Google may want to review the request manually.  A clear welcome message
> >> will speed up the process.  In any case, we should plan for a delay of 2
> >> business days as recommended by Google.
> >>
> >> We can either add or invite people to the groups.  Adding is immediate
> >> while an invitation needs to be accepted.  Adding may be cause less
> delay
> >> except there may be a maximum number we can add in a day.  I am still
> >> trying to find the maximum number.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Eoin <eoin.keary at owasp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> moving is fine, shall we need to move over all subscribers also? This
> may
> >>> cause confucion if not executed properly.
> >>>
> >>> Eoin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2009/9/17 dinis cruz <dinis.cruz at owasp.org>
> >>>
> >>> why don't we pick a couple projects (let's say 5) and try this there?
> >>>> Pravir suggested SAMM, I can add the OWASP O2 Platform, let's get a
> >>>> couple more projects and try this over there (Google Groups).
> >>>>
> >>>> If it works, we can then think about how to move other 100s of mailing
> >>>> lists (and ideally its archives)
> >>>>
> >>>> Dinis Cruz
> >>>>
> >>>> 2009/9/16 Laurence Casey <larry.casey at owasp.org>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  Helen,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for the offer.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you able to migrate Mailman to Google groups, I would like it if
> you
> >>>>> could handle it. Let me know what you need and I will zip/tar up the
> >>>>> mailman
> >>>>> directory for you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --Larry
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 9/16/09 2:09 PM, "Helen Gao" <owasp.li at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Tom,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm experienced in managing Internet group (Yahoo! group) and would
> >>>>> like
> >>>>> to help.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Helen Gao
> >>>>> 516-582-4943
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Tom Brennan - OWASP <tomb at owasp.org
> >
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Google Groups = easy for everyone
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/owasp-foundation
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  <http://groups.google.com/group/owasp-foundation> The hardpart is
> the
> >>>>> migration in a controlled manner and sounds like another project who
> >>>>> has
> >>>>> some bandwidth to spare?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Brad Causey <bradcausey at owasp.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yea I'm a member of a few other organizations that use the Google
> >>>>> Groups, and it is a fantastic alternative. I don't see much of a
> >>>>> downside.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Brad Causey
> >>>>> CISSP, MCSE, C|EH, CIFI, CGSP
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.owasp.org
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Never underestimate the time, expense, and effort an opponent will
> >>>>> expend to break a code. (Robert Morris)
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Pravir Chandra <chandra at owasp.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I also take issue with the notion that there's no reason for people
> to
> >>>>> post to a list they're not subscribed to (for the same reasons as
> >>>>> Rogan).
> >>>>> It's a matter of whether you're building an inclusive or exclusive
> >>>>> community
> >>>>> around a given project. For my project, I'm trying to build a user
> >>>>> community
> >>>>> with open discussions and any little, tiny barrier-to-entry makes it
> >>>>> far
> >>>>> more difficult.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, I do understand the spam problem. Having moderated the CLASP
> >>>>> list for 2+ years with this problem, yes it's a pain. BUT, if you set
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> auto-discard and occasionally check the moderation queue, it's
> >>>>> manageable.
> >>>>> I'm not saying this should be the config for every list, but it
> should
> >>>>> be at
> >>>>> the project leader's discretion to change it from a default-discard
> to
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> moderated list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Not to wander off the subject, by why are we (OWASP) still in the
> >>>>> business of running a mailman instance in this day and age? We've
> >>>>> already
> >>>>> migrated all of email to Gmail, so why not migrate our lists to
> Google
> >>>>> Groups (or some equivalent)? That solves the spam problem, adds a
> great
> >>>>> forums/web interface and generally "just works". I'll volunteer the
> >>>>> SAMM
> >>>>> list as the first guinea pig for that migration since I really
> >>>>> want/need the
> >>>>> extra features.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> p.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Rogan Dawes <lists at dawes.za.net>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Laurence Casey wrote:
> >>>>> >  This is normal behavior since I have a script that runs to make
> sure
> >>>>> > all lists are configured in a way to help reduce spam. I would
> prefer
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> > keep it this way and not have a list with special exception. Their
> is
> >>>>> > not reason people should want to post to a list they are not
> >>>>> subscribed
> >>>>> > to anyway.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > --Larry
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, I take issue with the statement that people have no reason to
> >>>>> want
> >>>>> to post to a list that they are not subscribed to. It is a fairly
> >>>>> common
> >>>>> thing to have a single question, post to the list to get an answer,
> and
> >>>>> then vanish again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That said, having moderated a list that was configured the way that
> >>>>> Pravir is asking for, it's really not worth the effort dealing with
> all
> >>>>> the spam that was previously being bounced, and now suddenly needs to
> >>>>> be
> >>>>> moderated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Larry's settings really are a good compromise between convenience for
> >>>>> the users and convenience for the list owner.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rogan
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > On 9/14/09 12:02 PM, "Pravir Chandra" <chandra at owasp.org> wrote:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >     Apologies if I should be sending this some place more specific,
> >>>>> but
> >>>>> >     some mailing list settings have been driving me nuts and I'm
> not
> >>>>> >     sure who to ask.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >     For the SAMM mailing list, I made some settings changes to
> allow
> >>>>> >     non-members to post (with moderation) but after a few minutes
> of
> >>>>> it
> >>>>> >     working correctly, it seems to reset itself. Does anyone else
> >>>>> > have
> >>>>> >     this problem or am I just being dim somehow?
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >     p.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >     _______________________________________________
> >>>>> >     OWASP-Leaders mailing list
> >>>>> >     OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> >>>>> >     https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>>> > OWASP-Leaders mailing list
> >>>>> > OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> >>>>> > https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
> >>>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> >>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
> >>>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> >>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
> >>>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> >>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
> >>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> >>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Eoin Keary CISSP CISA
> >>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Ireland_AppSec_2009_Conference
> >>>
> >>> OWASP Code Review Guide Lead Author
> >>> OWASP Ireland Chapter Lead
> >>> OWASP Global Committee Member (Industry)
> >>>
> >>> http://asg.ie/
> >>> https://twitter.com/EoinKeary
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
> >>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> >>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Wen Gao
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
> >> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> >> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> Tom Brennan
> 973.506.9303
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/tombrennan
> _______________________________________________
> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>



-- 
Wen Gao
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