[Owasp-leaders] Mailing list madness

Tom Brennan - OWASP tomb at owasp.org
Thu Sep 17 21:24:40 EDT 2009


Nothing changes until there is a plan approved to do so.


On 9/17/09, dinis cruz <dinis.cruz at owasp.org> wrote:
> I really don't think we should move the lists before we see google groups in
> action.
> Like I said on an earlier email:
>
> "..why don't we pick a couple projects (let's say 5) and try this there?
> Pravir suggested SAMM, I can add the OWASP O2 Platform, let's get a couple
> more projects and try this over there (Google Groups).
>
> If it works, we can then think about how to move other 100s of mailing lists
> (and ideally its archives)..."
>
> Dinis
>
> 2009/9/17 Helen Gao <owasp.li at gmail.com>
>
>> I agree with Eoin.  There are a couple of things we need to consider to
>> avoid confusion.
>>
>> If we are adding a large number of people, then delay is likely because
>> Google may want to review the request manually.  A clear welcome message
>> will speed up the process.  In any case, we should plan for a delay of 2
>> business days as recommended by Google.
>>
>> We can either add or invite people to the groups.  Adding is immediate
>> while an invitation needs to be accepted.  Adding may be cause less delay
>> except there may be a maximum number we can add in a day.  I am still
>> trying to find the maximum number.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Eoin <eoin.keary at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> moving is fine, shall we need to move over all subscribers also? This may
>>> cause confucion if not executed properly.
>>>
>>> Eoin
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/9/17 dinis cruz <dinis.cruz at owasp.org>
>>>
>>> why don't we pick a couple projects (let's say 5) and try this there?
>>>> Pravir suggested SAMM, I can add the OWASP O2 Platform, let's get a
>>>> couple more projects and try this over there (Google Groups).
>>>>
>>>> If it works, we can then think about how to move other 100s of mailing
>>>> lists (and ideally its archives)
>>>>
>>>> Dinis Cruz
>>>>
>>>> 2009/9/16 Laurence Casey <larry.casey at owasp.org>
>>>>
>>>>>  Helen,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the offer.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you able to migrate Mailman to Google groups, I would like it if you
>>>>> could handle it. Let me know what you need and I will zip/tar up the
>>>>> mailman
>>>>> directory for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Larry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/16/09 2:09 PM, "Helen Gao" <owasp.li at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm experienced in managing Internet group (Yahoo! group) and would
>>>>> like
>>>>> to help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Helen Gao
>>>>> 516-582-4943
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Tom Brennan - OWASP <tomb at owasp.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Google Groups = easy for everyone
>>>>>
>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/owasp-foundation
>>>>>
>>>>>  <http://groups.google.com/group/owasp-foundation> The hardpart is the
>>>>> migration in a controlled manner and sounds like another project who
>>>>> has
>>>>> some bandwidth to spare?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Brad Causey <bradcausey at owasp.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yea I'm a member of a few other organizations that use the Google
>>>>> Groups, and it is a fantastic alternative. I don't see much of a
>>>>> downside.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Brad Causey
>>>>> CISSP, MCSE, C|EH, CIFI, CGSP
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.owasp.org
>>>>> --
>>>>> Never underestimate the time, expense, and effort an opponent will
>>>>> expend to break a code. (Robert Morris)
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Pravir Chandra <chandra at owasp.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I also take issue with the notion that there's no reason for people to
>>>>> post to a list they're not subscribed to (for the same reasons as
>>>>> Rogan).
>>>>> It's a matter of whether you're building an inclusive or exclusive
>>>>> community
>>>>> around a given project. For my project, I'm trying to build a user
>>>>> community
>>>>> with open discussions and any little, tiny barrier-to-entry makes it
>>>>> far
>>>>> more difficult.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I do understand the spam problem. Having moderated the CLASP
>>>>> list for 2+ years with this problem, yes it's a pain. BUT, if you set
>>>>> the
>>>>> auto-discard and occasionally check the moderation queue, it's
>>>>> manageable.
>>>>> I'm not saying this should be the config for every list, but it should
>>>>> be at
>>>>> the project leader's discretion to change it from a default-discard to
>>>>> a
>>>>> moderated list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to wander off the subject, by why are we (OWASP) still in the
>>>>> business of running a mailman instance in this day and age? We've
>>>>> already
>>>>> migrated all of email to Gmail, so why not migrate our lists to Google
>>>>> Groups (or some equivalent)? That solves the spam problem, adds a great
>>>>> forums/web interface and generally "just works". I'll volunteer the
>>>>> SAMM
>>>>> list as the first guinea pig for that migration since I really
>>>>> want/need the
>>>>> extra features.
>>>>>
>>>>> p.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Rogan Dawes <lists at dawes.za.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Laurence Casey wrote:
>>>>> >  This is normal behavior since I have a script that runs to make sure
>>>>> > all lists are configured in a way to help reduce spam. I would prefer
>>>>> to
>>>>> > keep it this way and not have a list with special exception. Their is
>>>>> > not reason people should want to post to a list they are not
>>>>> subscribed
>>>>> > to anyway.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --Larry
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I take issue with the statement that people have no reason to
>>>>> want
>>>>> to post to a list that they are not subscribed to. It is a fairly
>>>>> common
>>>>> thing to have a single question, post to the list to get an answer, and
>>>>> then vanish again.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, having moderated a list that was configured the way that
>>>>> Pravir is asking for, it's really not worth the effort dealing with all
>>>>> the spam that was previously being bounced, and now suddenly needs to
>>>>> be
>>>>> moderated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry's settings really are a good compromise between convenience for
>>>>> the users and convenience for the list owner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rogan
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 9/14/09 12:02 PM, "Pravir Chandra" <chandra at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >     Apologies if I should be sending this some place more specific,
>>>>> but
>>>>> >     some mailing list settings have been driving me nuts and I'm not
>>>>> >     sure who to ask.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >     For the SAMM mailing list, I made some settings changes to allow
>>>>> >     non-members to post (with moderation) but after a few minutes of
>>>>> it
>>>>> >     working correctly, it seems to reset itself. Does anyone else
>>>>> > have
>>>>> >     this problem or am I just being dim somehow?
>>>>> >
>>>>> >     p.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >     _______________________________________________
>>>>> >     OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>>>> >     OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>>>> >     https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>>>> > OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>>>> > https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
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>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Eoin Keary CISSP CISA
>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Ireland_AppSec_2009_Conference
>>>
>>> OWASP Code Review Guide Lead Author
>>> OWASP Ireland Chapter Lead
>>> OWASP Global Committee Member (Industry)
>>>
>>> http://asg.ie/
>>> https://twitter.com/EoinKeary
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OWASP-Leaders mailing list
>>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Wen Gao
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org
>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders
>>
>>
>

-- 
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Tom Brennan
973.506.9303

http://www.linkedin.com/in/tombrennan


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