[OCC] [Owasp-leaders] [Global_education_committee] Commercialdelivery of courses based on OWASP materials

Dave Wichers dave.wichers at owasp.org
Sun May 23 19:02:25 EDT 2010

I agree with Mike, by the way, just so he doesn't feel like he is tilting
this windmill alone :-)


Simplicity should be the order of the day for the first go round. And then
if it gets so popular that its hard to police or there is more potential for
abuse, then we'll look at this again to see if adjustments would be




From: owasp-leaders-bounces at lists.owasp.org
[mailto:owasp-leaders-bounces at lists.owasp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Boberski
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:05 PM
To: owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org
Cc: owasp-connections-committee; global_education_committee at lists.owasp.org
Subject: Re: [Owasp-leaders] [Global_education_committee] Commercialdelivery
of courses based on OWASP materials


All we're really shooting for here is a phone book, one that's sorted
according to some OWASP artifacts as they are currently categorized, to try
to nudge the planet along in adoption of them, to get consumers of services
of those types to ask for them.


An encapsulating accreditation program(s) of any nature is not doable with
OWASP for many reasons. Many different approaches have been explored over
the past two years or so, the phone book/Drupal-like listing that is run
like the OWASP jobs page is what is possible. 


I'm currently even leaning towards further backing off the Drupal listing
and go with what CC/FIPS do, and just put the company name and contact info
in each listing, to further tweak what I have up there right now, to further
proactively head off any additional concerns. I also would like to work with
Tom to tweak some of the titles, and I could use a hand to further pretty it
up, I know there are folks out there a lot better at that kinda thing than


Let us keep it simple, let us keep in mind that just as there are the
various lists like this one to provide advice and suggestions for
improvement as we move forward with this, that the board is providing direct
oversight, and that OWASP sys admins will retain complete administrative
control, again just like the jobs page. 



On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 5:01 AM, John Wilander <john.wilander at owasp.org>

2010/5/23 Brian Bertacini <brian at appsecconsulting.com>


I respectfully recommend certain business requirements be validated prior to
listing in the commercial services directory.  This will help add legitimacy
to the program and reduce the potential for reputation risk caused by
potential bad operators.  Please consider the following requirements below:


That sure makes me less interested in this idea :). As Antonio said, who
will do all these checks? Since legislation differs quite a lot we'll have
to have representation in every country or state where these
companies/institutions/proprietors do their business.



1.  companies/institutions/proprietors listed in the directory our subject
business requirements validation
   -  business legitimacy (posses a government issued business license, in
good standing with tax collecting entities, etc.)


We'll have to set up a database of all these companies along with timestamps
for when we checked their good standing.


   -  perform background checks on employees providing services (criminal
history checks, etc.)


In many countries this is not an easy thing. Checking a person's criminal
history is not a phone call away.


   -  minimum levels of insurance (general liability, technology errors &
omissions, etc.)


Again with the database. And just defining what minimum insurance is? It'll
differ between countries. And a teacher might have good insurance coverage
in his/her own country but not when abroad.


2. implementation of a quality assurance program
   -  develop, maintain and monitor QA standards
   -  customer feedback/surveys (to monitor service providers)
   -  a method for quality enforcement (remediation, etc.)


Many smaller consultancy firms do not have QA programs in any formal way.
That might be a problem for OWASP but let's say Dinis has his own firm and
wants to be part of this commercial delivery of courses. Does he have to
develop, maintain and monitor QA standards?


3. formal certification program and code of conduct
  -  promote consistent and high-quality delivery of commercial services
  -  maintain high ethical standards for service providers


If you mean a basic "Sign this ethical code of conduct for teachers giving
courses based on OWASP material" I think it's a good idea. For me, that's
the only reasonable requirement we can handle.


   Regards, John


John Wilander
Chapter leader OWASP Sweden, http://owaspsweden.blogspot.com
Conference chair OWASP AppSec Research 2010, http://owasp.se

OWASP-Leaders mailing list
OWASP-Leaders at lists.owasp.org


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