<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Tobias,</div><div><br></div><div>Replying to your items</div><div><br></div><div>1. I added the following wording: "An overall vote of "confidence" is record if half or more of the board members vote for it and it will prevent further votes of confidence for the remainder of the year so long as the board member in question does not miss any further meetings."</div><div><br></div><div>2. As I mentioned earlier, the calculation starts at the first meeting, but is calculated based on the entire year.  So if you miss the first meeting, that's 11/12 attendance or 92%, which does not trigger a vote.  If I can make it clearer, please let me know, this is what it currently says "Attendance is tabulated by the Executive Director or delegate within seven days after every scheduled meeting for the purpose of determining if the 75% attendance requirement has been met, and the tabulation is based upon the entire calendar year"</div><div><br></div><div>3. We can add wording that makes it a requirement that board meeting times must rotate for the timezones of the Board members, if that makes this more fair.</div><div><br></div><div>Here's the proposed text in its entirety:</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b>SECTION 3.03 Regular Meetings.</b> The Board of Directors shall have regular meetings as needed.  A link to the board meeting agenda’s and the historical minutes is here: <a href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings</a><span style="color:black">.</span>  Meetings shall be at such dates, times, and places as the Board shall determine in December of the preceding year and as amended by the Board. In no event will there be less than one meeting per quarter.  These meetings will be open to public attendance, however, certain portions of the meeting may be closed to board members and their delegates when required for legal reasons, or to shield liability, or to handle personnel issues, or similar.  Attendance in person or virtually by board members is required at no less than 75% of the total meetings each year and shall be highly encouraged to meet in person at least once annually at a date to be announced and agreed upon.  Attendance is tabulated by the Executive Director or delegate within seven days after every scheduled meeting for the purpose of determining if the 75% attendance requirement has been met, and the tabulation is based upon the entire calendar year.  Cancelled meetings are considered attended for the purposes of the tabulation.  Failure by a board member to meet the 75% attendance requirement after any tabulation will cause a mandatory vote of <span>confidence</span> by the remaining board members, whose votes will be publicly recorded.  The vote of confidence is to take place within 21 days, but not sooner than 7 days, of notification by the Executive Director or delegate that a board member has not met the attendance threshold.  During the first seven days, the board member in question will have an opportunity to make their case to their fellow board members.  The vote of confidence will take place on the OWASP Board of Directors email list, unless the Board votes to review the matter at their next meeting, so long as the next meeting occurs within the 21-day window.  An overall vote of "confidence" is record if half or more of the board members vote for it and it will prevent further votes of confidence for the remainder of the year so long as the board member in question does not miss any further meetings.  An overall vote of "no <span>confidence</span>" is recorded if more than half of the board members vote for it, which causes the board member in question to be instantly removed from their seat on the board.  Vacancies on the board are handled as per Section 3.10.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><s>2 OWASP Board of Directors will hold quarterly board meetings lasting 4­6 hours each. The schedule of meetings will be set by the board in December before the year. It is likely the the board meetings will take place on Saturdays or on a dedicated day before a large OWASP conference. This change is a result of the success of the longer format board meeting and also a result of the Executive Director role that has enabled full time involvement and focus on OWASP operations. Board members must attend (in person or virtually) 3 of the 4 meetings to fulfill the attendance requirements. This will take effect in January, 2014. Changes passed August 19, 2013.<u></u><u></u></s></p><span><p class="MsoNormal"><s>3 “and shall be highly encouraged to meet in person at least once annually at a date to be announced and agreed upon” amendment to document passed June 10, 2013.</s></p></span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"></span><div><div tabindex="0" id=":1kg"><br></div></div><div tabindex="0" id=":1kg"><br></div><span class="im"><div tabindex="0" id=":1kg"><br></div><div></div><div tabindex="0" id=":1kg"><br></div><div></div><div tabindex="0" id=":1kg"><br></div><div></div><div tabindex="0" id=":1kg"><br></div><div></div><div tabindex="0" id=":1kg"><br></div><div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u><br></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">- Bil</p><span><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p></span><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p></div></span><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Tobias <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tobias.gondrom@owasp.org" target="_blank">tobias.gondrom@owasp.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div>I agree. <br>
      We should come to a motion and get a vote going on that. <br>
      <br>
      I have 3 comments: <br>
      1. The future wording should avoid that after a trigger has been
      reached, that we vote again (and again) even though the respective
      board member is attending. The wording might require clarification
      on that issue. <br>
      <br>
      2. I would prefer to avoid a situation where the calculation
      starts on the first meeting. E.g. a board member missing the first
      meeting and immediately triggering a vote of confidence. We could
      start the trigger at the 4th meeting, that gives reasonable excuse
      if one of the first 4 meetings is missed. <br>
      <br>
      And on a personal level: I like to remind us again, that so far I
      have given some priority to timing for US board members as most of
      our board members are there. So I like to ask for some
      understanding for people outside. Before you judge too quickly,
      please take a moment and think about how the current board times
      translate into European, China, Australia or Hawaii times... <br>
      In fact I am extremely grateful for Andrew's, Jim's and also
      Fabio's patience and understanding for the scheduling. It is hard
      to schedule for a globally distributed board. Still I believe it
      is in fact a very good thing for OWASP that we are having a global
      diversity on our board. <br>
      <br>
      Thank you and best regards, <br>
      <br>
      Tobias<br>
      (chair)<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 26/08/15 17:43, Michael Coates wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <div>Like all issues we've had some discussion on the list.  Next
        step would be a motion, second and a vote. Then the cards fall
        where they may. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>It sounds like most opinions are on the table so if someone
        wants to make a motion, then go for it. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>My view echoes Matt, we have to show up. 75% is good and we
        can work on the schedule to share the pain if that is the issue.
        Note that we set the schedule at the beginning of the year, so
        we should be more diligent in the future if people's voices on
        the schedule weren't heard. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I still agree that in person is nice, but not a hard
        requirement. <br>
        <br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        On Aug 26, 2015, at 7:59 AM, Josh Sokol <<a href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org" target="_blank">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>>
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div>
              <div>Ahhh, so this is something personal against me
                because I won't agree that it makes sense to lower the
                bar for attendance?  Let's call a spade a spade, Fabio.<br>
                <br>
              </div>
              These are two completely separate issues.  The Board
              attendance is one that ensures that you are at the
              meetings and actively engaged in the discussion and
              voting.  This is your FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY AS A BOARD
              MEMBER.  Meeting in-person has no effect on whether you
              are performing your Board duties.  It's a nice thing. 
              And, engaging with the community has NOTHING to do with
              attending a Board meeting in-person.  It has to do with
              being present while other members of our community are
              present.  Our community extends well beyond those present
              at AppSecUSA or AppSecEU.  That is an EXTREMELY
              narrow-minded viewpoint.  In fact, I would go so far as to
              argue that there are more members of our community that
              were at BlackHat than at either AppSec conference. 
              Nothing against AppSec, it's a great conference, I even
              ran one, but they're limited in appeal and in those who
              attend.<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            ~josh<br>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 8:45 AM,
              Fabio Cerullo <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fcerullo@owasp.org" target="_blank">fcerullo@owasp.org</a>></span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                <div>
                  <div>Guys,</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>My take on the 75% percent is that in the same
                    fashion that US Board members could attend meetings
                    comfortably during the day it is unfair to request
                    other non-US Board members to attend meetings in the
                    middle of the night. And then ask for a vote of
                    CONFIDENCE if you go below that bar. Josh, in the
                    same fashion that you object cannot attend meetings
                    in person due to family reasons I think is unfair
                    for you to request other Board members to make
                    family sacrifices or deprive them from sleep. </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Here is the 2015 schedule for past/upcoming Board
                    meetings… almost all of them are early afternoon PST
                    (Pacific time):</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><a href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings#tab=Agenda_for_2015_Meetings" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings#tab=Agenda_for_2015_Meetings</a></div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>So my recommendation there is either to make the
                    requirement more logical for everyone (attendance
                    50% or lower) or change the wording so the vote of
                    CONFIDENCE is not mandatory.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Regarding the attendance in person… my suggestion
                    is to require OWASP Board members to attend
                    in-person at least ONE meeting a year and engage
                    with the Global OWASP community. </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>I don’t believe there is a requirement in the
                    Bylaws for OWASP Board members to attend BlackHat,
                    BSides or other non-OWASP events.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Thanks,</div>
                  <div><span><br>
                      <div>
                        <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal">
                          <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal">
                            <div>Fabio Cerullo</div>
                            <div>Global Board Member</div>
                            OWASP Foundation
                            <div><a href="https://www.owasp.org" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org</a></div>
                            <div>Join me at <a href="https://2015.appsecusa.org" target="_blank">AppSecUSA 2015</a> in
                              San Francisco!</div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                    </span>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <blockquote type="cite">
                            <div>On 26 Aug 2015, at 13:53, Jim Manico
                              <<a href="mailto:jim.manico@owasp.org" target="_blank">jim.manico@owasp.org</a>>
                              wrote:</div>
                            <br>
                            <div>
                              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                                Josh,<br>
                                <br>
                                +1 on both accounts. I am personally
                                very grateful for your many and regular
                                contributions on the board, even when we
                                disagree on occasion. I think you handle
                                conflict extremely well and I appreciate
                                your strong sense of ethics.<br>
                                <br>
                                Keep on rockin' in the free world.<br>
                                <br>
                                Aloha,<br>
                                Jim<br>
                                <br>
                                <div>On 8/26/15 7:13 AM, Josh Sokol
                                  wrote:<br>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>Fabio,<br>
                                          <br>
                                        </div>
                                        I did not express any concern
                                        about the 75% requirement.  I
                                        think it is a very reasonable
                                        expectation to have a Board
                                        member not miss more than 3
                                        meetings a year.  Even that
                                        number seems high to me.  I
                                        don't see any issue if Michael
                                        or Andrew were to trigger a vote
                                        of confidence if they were to
                                        miss another meeting.  In all
                                        likelihodd, if that were to
                                        happen, we would just handle it
                                        exactly as we handled your
                                        situation.  We recognize
                                        contributions outside of the
                                        meetings and move on.  That
                                        said, if a Board member got
                                        elected, and simply wasn't
                                        attending meetings, or wasn't
                                        putting in any effort, would you
                                        really want to wait longer than
                                        3 months to have the OPTION to
                                        remove them?  This process is
                                        working exactly as it was
                                        designed to.  Why would we want
                                        to change it all of a sudden now
                                        that someone was falling below
                                        the bar?<br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      With respect to changing the
                                      in-person Board meeting
                                      requirements, I strongly object. 
                                      I was the one who petitioned the
                                      Board to have this requirement
                                      changed from MUST to SHOULD in the
                                      first place.  While my family and
                                      work obligations make travel quite
                                      difficult for me, I don't think it
                                      has sacrificed my participation in
                                      the Board at all.  And in terms of
                                      interaction with the community, I
                                      was out at both BSides Las Vegas
                                      and BlackHat where OWASP had a
                                      presence at both.  Were you?  I
                                      participate in the MONTHLY OWASP
                                      Austin chapter meetings, MONTHLY
                                      happy hours, and LASCON.  I attend
                                      many other local and regional
                                      security events such as BSides
                                      Austin and HouSecCon.  So, there
                                      are MANY other ways for a Board
                                      member to meet with the community,
                                      talk about their needs, and help
                                      them progress their projects
                                      without an in-person Board
                                      meeting.  With OWASP having a
                                      highly-distributed global Board,
                                      and in this age of technology, the
                                      idea that we all have to be in the
                                      same place to get something done
                                      is ludicrous.  Is it more ideal? 
                                      Absolutely.  Should it be a
                                      requirement?  Absolutely not.<br>
                                      <br>
                                    </div>
                                    ~josh<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                    <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug
                                      25, 2015 at 5:08 AM, Fabio Cerullo
                                      <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fcerullo@owasp.org" target="_blank">fcerullo@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                      wrote:<br>
                                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                                        <div>Bill,

                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>Thanks for updating the
                                            wording in the clause below.
                                            I have some comments
                                            regarding the 75% attendance
                                            requirement.</div>
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>Besides Josh, several
                                            board members already
                                            expressed a concern about
                                            this requirement and are
                                            willing to lower/eliminate
                                            it.</div>
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>Just to give you an
                                            example: Michael and Andrew
                                            will trigger a vote of
                                            CONFIDENCE if they miss
                                            another meeting during the
                                            calendar year.</div>
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div><a style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wpaOCBP-qrnde0sLiglDMJOUCtse6oB-zf3ONCkWgZk/edit?pli=1#gid=6" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wpaOCBP-qrnde0sLiglDMJOUCtse6oB-zf3ONCkWgZk/edit?pli=1#gid=6</a><br style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
                                          </div>
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>I think that is
                                            counterproductive and will
                                            send us in a spiral of votes
                                            of CONFIDENCE at every Board
                                            meeting. I would suggest to
                                            lower that requirement or
                                            NOT making the vote of
                                            CONFIDENCE a requirement for
                                            meetings attendance. The
                                            vote of CONFIDENCE should be
                                            a mechanism to expel a Board
                                            member if they don’t fulfil
                                            their duties, misbehave with
                                            other members/staff of the
                                            community, or they
                                            significantly do not show up
                                            at the Board meetings (e.g.
                                            attendance less than 50%). </div>
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>Also, I believe the
                                            requirement to meet in
                                            person is quite vague as per
                                            current statement below. I
                                            attended all in person
                                            meetings at AppSec USA &
                                            AppSec EU and think they are
                                            very valuable. You have a
                                            chance to meet with the
                                            community, talk about their
                                            needs, help them progress
                                            their projects, and meet
                                            face-to-face with your
                                            fellow Board members. So if
                                            we are going to change the
                                            Bylaws, I think we need to
                                            put a requirement for Board
                                            members to meet in person at
                                            least ONCE a year. I will
                                            appreciate your feedback and
                                            from the rest of the
                                            Governance list regarding
                                            this matter. </div>
                                          <span>
                                            <div>
                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                <div dir="ltr">
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal">Attendance
                                                      in person or
                                                      virtually by board
                                                      members is
                                                      required at no
                                                      less than 75% of
                                                      the total meetings
                                                      each year and <b>shall
                                                        be highly
                                                        encouraged to
                                                        meet in person
                                                        at least once
                                                        annually</b> at
                                                      a date to be
                                                      announced and
                                                      agreed upon. </p>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </blockquote>
                                            </div>
                                          </span>
                                          <div>Thanks,</div>
                                          <div><br>
                                            <div>
                                              <div style="text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal">
                                                <div style="text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal">
                                                  <div>Fabio Cerullo</div>
                                                  <div>Global Board
                                                    Member</div>
                                                  OWASP Foundation
                                                  <div><a href="https://www.owasp.org/" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org</a></div>
                                                  <div>Join me at <a href="https://2015.appsecusa.org/" target="_blank">AppSecUSA 2015</a> in
                                                    San Francisco!</div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <br>
                                            <div>
                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>On 25 Aug 2015,
                                                      at 10:22, Bil
                                                      Corry <<a href="mailto:bil.corry@owasp.org" target="_blank">bil.corry@owasp.org</a>>

                                                      wrote:</div>
                                                    <br>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                                        <div>Hi Josh,</div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>Tabulation
                                                          is described
                                                          as thus
                                                          (emphasis is
                                                          mine):</div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>"Attendance
                                                          is tabulated
                                                          after every
                                                          scheduled
                                                          meeting for
                                                          the purpose of
                                                          determining if
                                                          the 75%
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirement
                                                          has been met,
                                                          and the
                                                          tabulation is
                                                          <strong>based
                                                          upon the
                                                          entire
                                                          calendar year.</strong>"</div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>That means
                                                          if there are
                                                          12 meetings
                                                          during the
                                                          year and you
                                                          miss the first
                                                          meeting, your
                                                          attendance is
                                                          11/12 or 92%. 
                                                          No vote
                                                          required.</div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>As far as
                                                          your other
                                                          concerns, I've
                                                          updated the
                                                          text below,
                                                          hopefully I've
                                                          covered it
                                                          all?  I pulled
                                                          deadlines out
                                                          of thin air,
                                                          so feel free
                                                          to tweak the
                                                          numbers and
                                                          method of
                                                          voting.</div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b>SECTION
                                                          3.03 Regular
                                                          Meetings.</b>
                                                          The Board of
                                                          Directors
                                                          shall have
                                                          regular
                                                          meetings as
                                                          needed.  A
                                                          link to the
                                                          board meeting
                                                          agenda’s and
                                                          the historical
                                                          minutes is
                                                          here: <a href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings</a><span>.</span>
                                                           Meetings
                                                          shall be at
                                                          such dates,
                                                          times, and
                                                          places as the
                                                          Board shall
                                                          determine in
                                                          December of
                                                          the preceding
                                                          year and as
                                                          amended by the
                                                          Board. In no
                                                          event will
                                                          there be less
                                                          than one
                                                          meeting per
                                                          quarter. 
                                                          These meetings
                                                          will be open
                                                          to public
                                                          attendance,
                                                          however,
                                                          certain
                                                          portions of
                                                          the meeting
                                                          may be closed
                                                          to board
                                                          members and
                                                          their
                                                          delegates when
                                                          required for
                                                          legal reasons,
                                                          or to shield
                                                          liability, or
                                                          to handle
                                                          personnel
                                                          issues, or
                                                          similar. 
                                                          Attendance in
                                                          person or
                                                          virtually by
                                                          board members
                                                          is required at
                                                          no less than
                                                          75% of the
                                                          total meetings
                                                          each year and
                                                          shall be
                                                          highly
                                                          encouraged to
                                                          meet in person
                                                          at least once
                                                          annually at a
                                                          date to be
                                                          announced and
                                                          agreed upon. 
                                                          Attendance is
                                                          tabulated by
                                                          the Executive
                                                          Director or
                                                          delegate
                                                          within seven
                                                          days after
                                                          every
                                                          scheduled
                                                          meeting for
                                                          the purpose of
                                                          determining if
                                                          the 75%
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirement
                                                          has been met,
                                                          and the
                                                          tabulation is
                                                          based upon the
                                                          entire
                                                          calendar
                                                          year. 
                                                          Cancelled
                                                          meetings are
                                                          considered
                                                          attended for
                                                          the purposes
                                                          of the
                                                          tabulation. 
                                                          Failure by a
                                                          board member
                                                          to meet the
                                                          75% attendance
                                                          requirement
                                                          after any
                                                          tabulation
                                                          will cause a
                                                          mandatory vote
                                                          of <span>confidence</span>
                                                          by the
                                                          remaining
                                                          board members,
                                                          whose votes
                                                          will be
                                                          publicly
                                                          recorded.  The
                                                          vote of
                                                          confidence is
                                                          to take place
                                                          within 21
                                                          days, but not
                                                          sooner than 7
                                                          days, of
                                                          notification
                                                          by the
                                                          Executive
                                                          Director or
                                                          delegate that
                                                          a board member
                                                          has not met
                                                          the attendance
                                                          threshold. 
                                                          During the
                                                          first seven
                                                          days, the
                                                          board member
                                                          in question
                                                          will have an
                                                          opportunity to
                                                          make their
                                                          case to their
                                                          fellow board
                                                          members.  The
                                                          vote of
                                                          confidence
                                                          will take
                                                          place on the
                                                          OWASP Board of
                                                          Directors
                                                          email list,
                                                          unless the
                                                          Board votes to
                                                          review the
                                                          matter at
                                                          their next
                                                          meeting, so
                                                          long as the
                                                          next meeting
                                                          occurs within
                                                          the 21-day
                                                          window.  An
                                                          overall vote
                                                          of
                                                          "confidence"
                                                          is record if
                                                          half or more
                                                          of the board
                                                          members vote
                                                          for it and it
                                                          will prevent
                                                          further votes
                                                          of confidence
                                                          for the
                                                          remainder of
                                                          the year so
                                                          long as the
                                                          board member
                                                          in question
                                                          does not miss
                                                          any further
                                                          meetings.  An
                                                          overall vote
                                                          of "no <span>confidence</span>"
                                                          is recorded if
                                                          more
                                                          than half of
                                                          the board
                                                          members vote
                                                          for it, which
                                                          causes the
                                                          board member
                                                          in question to
                                                          be instantly
                                                          removed from
                                                          their seat on
                                                          the board. 
                                                          Vacancies on
                                                          the board are
                                                          handled as per
                                                          Section 3.10.<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"></span></p>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u><br>
                                                          </u></span></p>
                                                          <div><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><s>2
                                                          OWASP Board of
                                                          Directors will
                                                          hold quarterly
                                                          board meetings
                                                          lasting 4­6
                                                          hours each.
                                                          The schedule
                                                          of meetings
                                                          will be set by
                                                          the board in
                                                          December
                                                          before the
                                                          year. It is
                                                          likely the the
                                                          board meetings
                                                          will take
                                                          place on
                                                          Saturdays or
                                                          on a dedicated
                                                          day before a
                                                          large OWASP
                                                          conference.
                                                          This change is
                                                          a result of
                                                          the success of
                                                          the longer
                                                          format board
                                                          meeting and
                                                          also a result
                                                          of the
                                                          Executive
                                                          Director role
                                                          that has
                                                          enabled full
                                                          time
                                                          involvement
                                                          and focus on
                                                          OWASP
                                                          operations.
                                                          Board members
                                                          must attend
                                                          (in person or
                                                          virtually) 3
                                                          of the 4
                                                          meetings to
                                                          fulfill the
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirements.
                                                          This will take
                                                          effect in
                                                          January, 2014.
                                                          Changes passed
                                                          August 19,
                                                          2013.</s></p>
                                                          <span>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><s>3
                                                          “and shall be
                                                          highly
                                                          encouraged to
                                                          meet in person
                                                          at least once
                                                          annually at a
                                                          date to be
                                                          announced and
                                                          agreed upon”
                                                          amendment to
                                                          document
                                                          passed June
                                                          10, 2013.</s></p>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div> </div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>- Bil</div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                        <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                                          Mon, Aug 24,
                                                          2015 at 2:31
                                                          PM, Josh Sokol
                                                          <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org" target="_blank">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>Bil,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          I initiated a
                                                          Board vote on
                                                          the new text
                                                          that you had
                                                          proposed back
                                                          in April or
                                                          May this year
                                                          and the Board
                                                          unanimously
                                                          voted to
                                                          approve.  Paul
                                                          has been
                                                          working to try
                                                          to identify
                                                          all of the
                                                          changes that
                                                          have been made
                                                          (there's only
                                                          been one or
                                                          two this year)
                                                          in order to
                                                          get a new
                                                          version of the
                                                          Bylaws on the
                                                          website. 
                                                          Regardless,
                                                          the one that
                                                          is there is
                                                          definitely
                                                          out-of-date. 
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          With respect
                                                          to your
                                                          update, thank
                                                          you, I was
                                                          thinking
                                                          something
                                                          similar as
                                                          well, but this
                                                          doesn't
                                                          address a few
                                                          of my bullet
                                                          points:<span><br>
                                                          <ul>
                                                          <li>The method
                                                          of tabulation
                                                          is
                                                          unspecified. 
                                                          If we are
                                                          tabulating
                                                          sequentially,
                                                          then we have a
                                                          situation
                                                          where if a
                                                          Board member
                                                          missed their
                                                          first meeting,
                                                          a vote is
                                                          required to be
                                                          held for three
                                                          tabulations
                                                          (0%, 50%, and
                                                          66%) until
                                                          they make it
                                                          up over 75%. 
                                                          I am guessing
                                                          that the
                                                          intent is for
                                                          this to be
                                                          tabulated
                                                          assuming
                                                          attendance for
                                                          all future
                                                          meetings and
                                                          action would
                                                          be taken if
                                                          the person
                                                          would be
                                                          unable to
                                                          maintain 75%
                                                          attendance,
                                                          but if anyone
                                                          disagrees and
                                                          has a
                                                          different
                                                          interpretation,
                                                          please let me
                                                          know.</li>
                                                          <li>The
                                                          timeframe for
                                                          the vote is
                                                          unspecified. 
                                                          It just says
                                                          that it will
                                                          cause a
                                                          mandatory vote
                                                          of confidence,
                                                          but never says
                                                          when that vote
                                                          is supposed to
                                                          take place or
                                                          who is
                                                          supposed to
                                                          initiate it. 
                                                          Is it to be
                                                          handled
                                                          immediately at
                                                          the time of
                                                          tabulation? 
                                                          Is it handled
                                                          offline over
                                                          e-mail as we
                                                          recently did? 
                                                          Is it handled
                                                          at the next
                                                          Board
                                                          meeting? 
                                                          Based on the
                                                          current
                                                          verbiage,
                                                          technically
                                                          the Board
                                                          could drag
                                                          it's heels on
                                                          it
                                                          indefinitely. 
                                                          I would think
                                                          that something
                                                          reasonable
                                                          would be
                                                          having the
                                                          vote initiated
                                                          by our
                                                          Executive
                                                          Director
                                                          within two
                                                          weeks of the
                                                          tabulation
                                                          that found
                                                          them to be not
                                                          meeting their
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirements. 
                                                          If there is a
                                                          Board meeting
                                                          during that
                                                          window, then
                                                          it could be
                                                          handled then,
                                                          or handled via
                                                          the mailing
                                                          list
                                                          otherwise. 
                                                          That provides
                                                          time to handle
                                                          the situation
                                                          and removes
                                                          any Board
                                                          member bias
                                                          from the
                                                          initiation of
                                                          the vote.</li>
                                                          <li>This does
                                                          not offer the
                                                          offender an
                                                          opportunity to
                                                          explain why
                                                          they failed to
                                                          meet their
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirement. 
                                                          I think that a
                                                          reasonable
                                                          process would
                                                          assume that
                                                          there is a
                                                          rational
                                                          explanation
                                                          for why they
                                                          did not
                                                          attend.  Maybe
                                                          it's because
                                                          all of the
                                                          meetings were
                                                          being held at
                                                          2 AM in their
                                                          timezone. 
                                                          Maybe it's
                                                          because of a
                                                          death in the
                                                          family.  I
                                                          think this
                                                          process should
                                                          take the
                                                          personal
                                                          factor into
                                                          consideration.</li>
                                                          </ul>
                                                          </span>
                                                          <p>Would you
                                                          care to take a
                                                          stab at
                                                          addressing
                                                          these?  If
                                                          not, I can
                                                          certainly take
                                                          a shot at it
                                                          as well.</p>
                                                          <span><font color="#888888">
                                                          <p>~josh<br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                          <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                                          Mon, Aug 24,
                                                          2015 at 2:07
                                                          AM, Bil Corry
                                                          <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bil.corry@owasp.org" target="_blank">bil.corry@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>Hi Josh,</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>The
                                                          current bylaw
                                                          I see is from
                                                          last year,
                                                          which doesn't
                                                          have the text
                                                          you quoted. 
                                                          It's here:</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>     <a href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Foundation_ByLaws" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Foundation_ByLaws</a></div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>I know we
                                                          discussed
                                                          changing the
                                                          bylaws, but I
                                                          don't know
                                                          what was
                                                          ultimately
                                                          adopted. 
                                                          FWIW, this is
                                                          the wording
                                                          from last
                                                          proposed text,
                                                          which is very
                                                          clear on how
                                                          tabulation is
                                                          calculated,
                                                          although it
                                                          doesn't give
                                                          strict time
                                                          limes for
                                                          tabulation and
                                                          confidence
                                                          voting.  The
                                                          thought was to
                                                          allow the
                                                          Board some
                                                          flexibility in
                                                          how they want
                                                          to execute
                                                          it.  But if
                                                          you'd like it
                                                          to be formally
                                                          incorporated
                                                          into the
                                                          bylaws, then
                                                          please
                                                          proposed some
                                                          text.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b>SECTION

                                                          3.03 Regular
                                                          Meetings.</b>
                                                          The Board of
                                                          Directors
                                                          shall have
                                                          regular
                                                          meetings as
                                                          needed.  A
                                                          link to the
                                                          board meeting
                                                          agenda’s and
                                                          the historical
                                                          minutes is
                                                          here: <a href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings</a><span>.</span>
                                                           Meetings
                                                          shall be at
                                                          such dates,
                                                          times, and
                                                          places as the
                                                          Board shall
                                                          determine in
                                                          December of
                                                          the preceding
                                                          year and as
                                                          amended by the
                                                          Board. In no
                                                          event will
                                                          there be less
                                                          than one
                                                          meeting per
                                                          quarter. 
                                                          These meetings
                                                          will be open
                                                          to public
                                                          attendance,
                                                          however,
                                                          certain
                                                          portions of
                                                          the meeting
                                                          may be closed
                                                          to board
                                                          members  and
                                                          their
                                                          delegates when
                                                          required for
                                                          legal reasons,
                                                          or to shield
                                                          liability, or
                                                          to handle
                                                          personnel
                                                          issues, or
                                                          similar. 
                                                          Attendance in
                                                          person or
                                                          virtually by
                                                          board members
                                                          is required at
                                                          no less than
                                                          75% of the
                                                          total meetings
                                                          each year and
                                                          shall be
                                                          highly
                                                          encouraged to
                                                          meet in person
                                                          at least once
                                                          annually at a
                                                          date to be
                                                          announced and
                                                          agreed upon. 
                                                          Attendance is
                                                          tabulated
                                                          after every
                                                          scheduled
                                                          meeting for
                                                          the purpose of
                                                          determining if
                                                          the 75%
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirement
                                                          has been met,
                                                          and the
                                                          tabulation is
                                                          based upon the
                                                          entire
                                                          calendar
                                                          year. 
                                                          Cancelled
                                                          meetings are
                                                          considered
                                                          attended for
                                                          the purposes
                                                          of the
                                                          tabulation. 
                                                          Failure by a
                                                          board member
                                                          to meet the
                                                          75% attendance
                                                          requirement
                                                          after any
                                                          tabulation
                                                          will cause a
                                                          mandatory vote
                                                          of <span>confidence</span>
                                                          by the
                                                          remaining
                                                          board members,
                                                          whose votes
                                                          will be
                                                          publicly
                                                          recorded.  An
                                                          overall vote
                                                          of "no <span>confidence</span>"
                                                          is recorded if
                                                          half or more
                                                          of the board
                                                          members vote
                                                          for it, which
                                                          causes the
                                                          board member
                                                          in question to
                                                          be instantly
                                                          removed from
                                                          their seat on
                                                          the board. 
                                                          Vacancies on
                                                          the board are
                                                          handled as per
                                                          Section 3.10.<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"></span></p>
                                                          <div><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><s>2
                                                          OWASP Board of
                                                          Directors will
                                                          hold quarterly
                                                          board meetings
                                                          lasting 4­6
                                                          hours each.
                                                          The schedule
                                                          of meetings
                                                          will be set by
                                                          the board in
                                                          December
                                                          before the
                                                          year. It is
                                                          likely the the
                                                          board meetings
                                                          will take
                                                          place on
                                                          Saturdays or
                                                          on a dedicated
                                                          day before a
                                                          large OWASP
                                                          conference.
                                                          This change is
                                                          a result of
                                                          the success of
                                                          the longer
                                                          format board
                                                          meeting and
                                                          also a result
                                                          of the
                                                          Executive
                                                          Director role
                                                          that has
                                                          enabled full
                                                          time
                                                          involvement
                                                          and focus on
                                                          OWASP
                                                          operations.
                                                          Board members
                                                          must attend
                                                          (in person or
                                                          virtually) 3
                                                          of the 4
                                                          meetings to
                                                          fulfill the
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirements.
                                                          This will take
                                                          effect in
                                                          January, 2014.
                                                          Changes passed
                                                          August 19,
                                                          2013.</s></p>
                                                          <span>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><s>3
                                                          “and shall be
                                                          highly
                                                          encouraged to
                                                          meet in person
                                                          at least once
                                                          annually at a
                                                          date to be
                                                          announced and
                                                          agreed upon”
                                                          amendment to
                                                          document
                                                          passed June
                                                          10, 2013.</s></p>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          <span><font color="#888888">
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>- Bil</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                          <div class="gmail_quote">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>On Sat,
                                                          Aug 22, 2015
                                                          at 6:01 PM,
                                                          Josh Sokol <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org" target="_blank">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>Board,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          As recently
                                                          discussed and
                                                          voted on in a
                                                          separate
                                                          thread, our
                                                          current Bylaws
                                                          state as
                                                          follows:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <span><i>Failure

                                                          by a board
                                                          member to meet
                                                          the 75%
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirement
                                                          after any
                                                          tabulation
                                                          will cause a
                                                          mandatory vote
                                                          of confidence
                                                          by the
                                                          remaining
                                                          board members,
                                                          whose votes
                                                          will be
                                                          publicly
                                                          recorded.  An
                                                          overall vote
                                                          of "no
                                                          confidence" is
                                                          recorded if
                                                          half or more
                                                          of the board
                                                          members vote
                                                          for it, which
                                                          causes the
                                                          board member
                                                          in question to
                                                          be instantly
                                                          removed from
                                                          their seat on
                                                          the board.</i></span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          I see a few
                                                          issues with
                                                          this:<br>
                                                          <ul>
                                                          <li>The
                                                          timeframe that
                                                          this applies
                                                          to is
                                                          unspecified. 
                                                          Is it per
                                                          quarter?  Per
                                                          calendar
                                                          year?  Over
                                                          the two year
                                                          duration of a
                                                          Board member
                                                          term?  Over
                                                          the cumulative
                                                          time that a
                                                          Board member
                                                          is in office? 
                                                          I'm guessing
                                                          that the
                                                          intent is for
                                                          this to be
                                                          over the
                                                          calendar year,
                                                          but if anyone
                                                          disagrees and
                                                          has a
                                                          different
                                                          interpretation,
                                                          please let me
                                                          know.</li>
                                                          <li>The
                                                          definition of
                                                          "tabulation"
                                                          is
                                                          unspecified. 
                                                          Who is doing
                                                          the
                                                          tabulation? 
                                                          Is there a
                                                          certain time
                                                          that this
                                                          tabulation is
                                                          conducted? 
                                                          I'm guessing
                                                          that the
                                                          intent is for
                                                          this to be
                                                          based on the
                                                          attendance
                                                          role that is
                                                          captured
                                                          during the
                                                          Board meeting,
                                                          but if anyone
                                                          disagrees and
                                                          has a
                                                          different
                                                          interpretation,
                                                          please let me
                                                          know.</li>
                                                          <li>The method
                                                          of tabulation
                                                          is
                                                          unspecified. 
                                                          If we are
                                                          tabulating
                                                          sequentially,
                                                          then we have a
                                                          situation
                                                          where if a
                                                          Board member
                                                          missed their
                                                          first meeting,
                                                          a vote is
                                                          required to be
                                                          held for three
                                                          tabulations
                                                          (0%, 50%, and
                                                          66%) until
                                                          they make it
                                                          up over 75%. 
                                                          I am guessing
                                                          that the
                                                          intent is for
                                                          this to be
                                                          tabulated
                                                          assuming
                                                          attendance for
                                                          all future
                                                          meetings and
                                                          action would
                                                          be taken if
                                                          the person
                                                          would be
                                                          unable to
                                                          maintain 75%
                                                          attendance,
                                                          but if anyone
                                                          disagrees and
                                                          has a
                                                          different
                                                          interpretation,
                                                          please let me
                                                          know.<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>The
                                                          timeframe for
                                                          the vote is
                                                          unspecified. 
                                                          It just says
                                                          that it will
                                                          cause a
                                                          mandatory vote
                                                          of confidence,
                                                          but never says
                                                          when that vote
                                                          is supposed to
                                                          take place or
                                                          who is
                                                          supposed to
                                                          initiate it. 
                                                          Is it to be
                                                          handled
                                                          immediately at
                                                          the time of
                                                          tabulation? 
                                                          Is it handled
                                                          offline over
                                                          e-mail as we
                                                          recently did? 
                                                          Is it handled
                                                          at the next
                                                          Board
                                                          meeting? 
                                                          Based on the
                                                          current
                                                          verbiage,
                                                          technically
                                                          the Board
                                                          could drag
                                                          it's heels on
                                                          it
                                                          indefinitely. 
                                                          I would think
                                                          that something
                                                          reasonable
                                                          would be
                                                          having the
                                                          vote initiated
                                                          by our
                                                          Executive
                                                          Director
                                                          within two
                                                          weeks of the
                                                          tabulation
                                                          that found
                                                          them to be not
                                                          meeting their
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirements. 
                                                          If there is a
                                                          Board meeting
                                                          during that
                                                          window, then
                                                          it could be
                                                          handled then,
                                                          or handled via
                                                          the mailing
                                                          list
                                                          otherwise. 
                                                          That provides
                                                          time to handle
                                                          the situation
                                                          and removes
                                                          any Board
                                                          member bias
                                                          from the
                                                          initiation of
                                                          the vote.<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>This does
                                                          not offer the
                                                          offender an
                                                          opportunity to
                                                          explain why
                                                          they failed to
                                                          meet their
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirement. 
                                                          I think that a
                                                          reasonable
                                                          process would
                                                          assume that
                                                          there is a
                                                          rational
                                                          explanation
                                                          for why they
                                                          did not
                                                          attend.  Maybe
                                                          it's because
                                                          all of the
                                                          meetings were
                                                          being held at
                                                          2 AM in their
                                                          timezone. 
                                                          Maybe it's
                                                          because of a
                                                          death in the
                                                          family.  I
                                                          think this
                                                          process should
                                                          take the
                                                          personal
                                                          factor into
                                                          consideration.<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          </ul>
                                                          <p>With the
                                                          above in mind,
                                                          I don't see a
                                                          reason to
                                                          lower the bar
                                                          from 75%.  My
                                                          thinking is
                                                          that this is a
                                                          reasonable
                                                          expectation to
                                                          have of a
                                                          Board member
                                                          with all
                                                          things being
                                                          equal.  It may
                                                          not be the
                                                          best measure
                                                          of engagement,
                                                          but it is
                                                          still a
                                                          responsibility
                                                          that all Board
                                                          members are
                                                          aware of going
                                                          into it, and I
                                                          am not aware
                                                          of it having
                                                          been an issue
                                                          in the past
                                                          (until now),
                                                          so I'm not
                                                          sure why we
                                                          would change
                                                          it now that
                                                          one Board
                                                          member had a
                                                          vote initiated
                                                          for it.  I
                                                          would propose
                                                          that we update
                                                          the language
                                                          in order to
                                                          better clarify
                                                          my bullet
                                                          points above,
                                                          but leave the
                                                          requirement
                                                          itself in
                                                          place.  Please
                                                          provide your
                                                          thoughts
                                                          regarding each
                                                          of these
                                                          bullet points
                                                          (or any other
                                                          issues that
                                                          you think need
                                                          to be
                                                          addressed
                                                          here).  Once
                                                          we have some
                                                          level of
                                                          agreement with
                                                          these, I can
                                                          take the
                                                          action item of
                                                          re-writing
                                                          this section
                                                          of the Bylaws
                                                          in order to
                                                          incorporate
                                                          these
                                                          changes. 
                                                          Thanks.</p>
                                                          <span><font color="#888888">
                                                          <p>~josh<br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <span>_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          Owasp-board
                                                          mailing list<br>
                                                          <a href="mailto:Owasp-board@lists.owasp.org" target="_blank">Owasp-board@lists.owasp.org</a><br>
                                                          <a href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board" target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board</a><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span></blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
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                                <br>
                                <pre cols="72">-- 
Jim Manico
Global Board Member
OWASP Foundation
<a href="https://www.owasp.org/" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org</a>
Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!</pre>
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      <pre>_______________________________________________
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