<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>.... and this is why the board should vote before removing a member for lack of participation. There are very good reasons why Andrew cannot make meetings in the middle of the night for his time zone.<br><br>Aloha,<br><div>--</div><div>Jim Manico</div><div>@Manicode</div><div>(808) 652-3805</div></div><div><br>On May 6, 2015, at 1:01 PM, Tobias <<a href="mailto:tobias.gondrom@owasp.org">tobias.gondrom@owasp.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
  
    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  
  
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Andrew, <br>
      <br>
      I hear and agree. Today our board is really spread quite evenly
      across the globe and it is difficult to find slots that are not a
      total pain for at least one of us. And if I may say, especially
      you already went to extraordinary lengths to attend board
      meetings. Far above and beyond the normal duties. Great respect! <br>
      <br>
      I will try my very best to continue scheduling our board meetings
      at times that are acceptable for everyone and with the patience
      and flexibility of our board, I hope I can fulfil this promise. <br>
      <br>
      But equally, I agree with you that the wording for our board
      meetings could be improved to reflect that certain time slots
      should justify an excuse from attendance....<br>
      <br>
      Would you like to prepare a draft for the amendment to address
      your concerns? <br>
      <br>
      Thanks, Tobias<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 05/05/15 15:44, Andrew van der Stock wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:CAEdoTfJDrhvefz2OQOtYB+QgaxdCU7utVLgsRkRoAAs7OcxgKg@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
      <p dir="ltr">Hi all, </p>
      <p dir="ltr">I am supportive of the new wording, but part of the
        issue is to do with amenity of hours. All of the Board meetings
        bar one have been between 2 am and 5 am my time during a working
        week. Due to this Board's geographic spread there is no one
        "good" time for all of us.</p>
      <p dir="ltr">We need words about this in the December schedule
        meeting text to spread the pain around or provide the ability to
        evote on upcoming matters or pass on a proxy vote to Board
        members in the Asia Pacific region if the current hours are to
        remain. </p>
      <p dir="ltr">I still think it is good manners to provide the other
        Board members with an apology before not being able to attend a
        meeting for whatever reason, but I don't think we need words in
        the by laws for that.</p>
      <p dir="ltr">Thanks<br>
        Andrew </p>
      <div class="gmail_quote">On 5 May 2015 12:26, "Josh Sokol" <<a href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>>
        wrote:<br type="attribution">
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div>
              <div>Updating status of the vote:<br>
                <br>
                Josh - Yes<br>
                Jim - Yes<br>
                Matt - Yes<br>
                Fabio - Yes<br>
                Michael - Yes<br>
                Tobias - Yes<br>
                Andrew - <br>
                <br>
              </div>
              Andrew, could you please provide your vote when you get a
              chance?  The vote passes, but I would like to be able to
              say that all votes were counted.  Thanks!<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            ~josh<br>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 7:58 PM,
              Michael Coates <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michael.coates@owasp.org" target="_blank">michael.coates@owasp.org</a>></span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div dir="ltr">I'm fine with this wording.
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Yes.</div>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div>
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div>
                              <div dir="ltr">
                                <div>
                                  <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                    --<br>
                                    Michael Coates | <a href="https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=_mwc" target="_blank">@_mwc</a><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>OWASP Global Board<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div>Join me at <a href="http://AppSecUSA.org" target="_blank">AppSecUSA</a>
                                      2015 in San Francisco!</div>
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div><br>
                                      <br>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 4, 2015 at
                        2:42 PM, Paul Ritchie <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul.ritchie@owasp.org" target="_blank">paul.ritchie@owasp.org</a>></span>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div dir="ltr">Hi Tobias, All:
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Yes, that scenario is possible under an
                              exact application of the rule,  But I
                              expect that under the first 'vote of
                              confidence', the Board could vote to
                              'accept' the explanation of the missed
                              meetings, and included in the motion to
                              'accept the explanation'.....add a phrase
                              that says, 'Board will conduct a second
                              vote of confidence 'when or if' another
                              meeting is missed'.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>At least, that is one way to implement
                              this policy.</div>
                            <span><font color="#888888">
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Paul</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                              </font></span>
                            <div class="gmail_extra"><span>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                      <div>
                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                          <div>Best Regards, Paul
                                            Ritchie</div>
                                          <div>OWASP Executive Director</div>
                                          <div><a href="mailto:paul.ritchie@owasp.org" target="_blank">paul.ritchie@owasp.org</a></div>
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                              </span>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May
                                    4, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Tobias <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tobias.gondrom@owasp.org" target="_blank">tobias.gondrom@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                    wrote:<br>
                                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                      <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                                        <div>I agree and vote "yes",
                                          too. <br>
                                          <br>
                                          But I have one question: 
                                          maybe I am overthinking this,
                                          just got a weird thought: <br>
                                          imagine the following
                                          scenario: Let's say a board
                                          member does not attend 4 out
                                          of the first 8 meetings. So
                                          obviously this means he/she
                                          will not fulfill her
                                          requirement and this will
                                          trigger a mandatory vote of
                                          confidence when he/she misses
                                          the 4th time at the 8th
                                          meeting. The current text
                                          seems to further mean that it
                                          will also trigger further
                                          votes of confidence for every
                                          one of the following four
                                          board meetings even if the
                                          board member attends all of
                                          them??? But maybe I am
                                          misreading or overthinking?<span><font color="#888888"><br>
                                              <br>
                                              Tobias</font></span>
                                          <div>
                                            <div><br>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
                                              On 04/05/15 23:09, Josh
                                              Sokol wrote:<br>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                              <div dir="ltr">
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>OK, no
                                                          discussion so
                                                          I'd like to
                                                          call for a
                                                          vote.  Looks
                                                          like Jim,
                                                          Matt, and
                                                          Fabio have
                                                          already gotten
                                                          us started:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          Josh - Yes<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          Jim - Yes<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          Matt - Yes<br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        Fabio - Yes<br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      Michael - <br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    Tobias - <br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  Andrew - <br>
                                                  <br>
                                                </div>
                                                ~josh<br>
                                              </div>
                                              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                                  Mon, May 4, 2015 at
                                                  11:08 AM, Fabio
                                                  Cerullo <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fcerullo@owasp.org" target="_blank">fcerullo@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                                  wrote:<br>
                                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                    <div dir="auto">
                                                      <div>Yes<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Sent from my
                                                        iPhone</div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          On 4 May 2015,
                                                          at 10:43, Matt
                                                          Konda <<a href="mailto:matt.konda@owasp.org" target="_blank">matt.konda@owasp.org</a>>

                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">I'm
                                                          supportive of
                                                          this.  (Yes to
                                                          accept the
                                                          language in
                                                          Josh's
                                                          original
                                                          email)
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Matt</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                          <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                                          Fri, May 1,
                                                          2015 at 11:53
                                                          AM, Josh Sokol
                                                          <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org" target="_blank">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>With a
                                                          formal motion,
                                                          and a second,
                                                          the next step
                                                          is a call for
                                                          discussion.  I
                                                          know that
                                                          there was some
                                                          discussion
                                                          around the
                                                          percent, but I
                                                          feel
                                                          comfortable
                                                          with the
                                                          higher number
                                                          (75%),
                                                          especially
                                                          given that it
                                                          includes the
                                                          human
                                                          component of a
                                                          Board vote. 
                                                          In effect, we
                                                          have a process
                                                          to determine
                                                          whether they
                                                          were upholding
                                                          expectations,
                                                          and another
                                                          process to
                                                          determine if
                                                          there was a
                                                          reasonable
                                                          explanation as
                                                          to why they
                                                          were not.  I
                                                          realize that
                                                          it is already
                                                          the weekend
                                                          for some of
                                                          you so let's
                                                          give this
                                                          until Monday
                                                          12 PM CST for
                                                          any discussion
                                                          around this. 
                                                          Assuming that
                                                          there is none,
                                                          or that we are
                                                          all in
                                                          agreement, we
                                                          will push for
                                                          a
                                                          Yes/No/Abstain
                                                          vote on
                                                          Monday.  Sound
                                                          good?<span><font color="#888888"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                          <span><font color="#888888">~josh<br>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                          <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                                          Fri, May 1,
                                                          2015 at 11:47
                                                          AM, Jim Manico
                                                          <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim.manico@owasp.org" target="_blank">jim.manico@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                          <div dir="auto">
                                                          <div>So I
                                                          second this
                                                          motion and
                                                          obviously vote
                                                          yes as well.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Aloha,<span><br>
                                                          <div>--</div>
                                                          <div>Jim
                                                          Manico</div>
                                                          <div>@Manicode</div>
                                                          <div><a href="tel:%28808%29%20652-3805" value="+18086523805" target="_blank">(808)

                                                          652-3805</a></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          On May 1,
                                                          2015, at 5:59
                                                          AM, Paul
                                                          Ritchie <<a href="mailto:paul.ritchie@owasp.org" target="_blank">paul.ritchie@owasp.org</a>>

                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">Josh
                                                          - All:
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>While I
                                                          am not a
                                                          voting member
                                                          of the Board,
                                                          I do support
                                                          this improved
                                                          language for a
                                                          Bylaw Change.</div>
                                                          <div>Note:
                                                           The Vote of
                                                          Confidence
                                                          gives the
                                                          Board the
                                                          flexibility to
                                                          'take no
                                                          action' if it
                                                          is determined
                                                          there were
                                                          valid reasons
                                                          for an
                                                          individual to
                                                          miss a
                                                          meeting.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Also,
                                                          best practice
                                                          for email
                                                          voting
                                                          requires that
                                                          all 7 Board
                                                          members
                                                          response
                                                          proactively
                                                          (yes, no,
                                                          abstain) to
                                                          ensure there
                                                          is unanimous
                                                          consent to
                                                          hold the email
                                                          vote.  And of
                                                          course, at the
                                                          next normal
                                                          board meeting
                                                          we will note
                                                          in the minutes
                                                          the official
                                                          result of the
                                                          email voting
                                                          'between'
                                                          meetings.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Paul</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>Best
                                                          Regards, Paul
                                                          Ritchie</div>
                                                          <div>OWASP
                                                          Executive
                                                          Director</div>
                                                          <div><a href="mailto:paul.ritchie@owasp.org" target="_blank">paul.ritchie@owasp.org</a></div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div class="gmail_quote">On

                                                          Fri, May 1,
                                                          2015 at 8:22
                                                          AM, Josh Sokol
                                                          <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org" target="_blank">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>Since we
                                                          didn't have
                                                          time to cover
                                                          this during
                                                          the meeting, I
                                                          would like to
                                                          call for a
                                                          formal vote
                                                          offline for
                                                          Bil's proposed
                                                          Bylaw change. 
                                                          I formally
                                                          motion that we
                                                          approve Bil's
                                                          proposal as
                                                          written:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">PROPOSED</span></b></p>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b>SECTION

                                                          3.03 Regular
                                                          Meetings.</b>
                                                          The Board of
                                                          Directors
                                                          shall have
                                                          regular
                                                          meetings as
                                                          needed.  A
                                                          link to the
                                                          board meeting
                                                          agenda’s and
                                                          the historical
                                                          minutes is
                                                          here: <a href="https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings" target="_blank">https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Board_Meetings</a><span style="color:black">.</span>  Meetings shall be at such dates, times,
                                                          and places as
                                                          the Board
                                                          shall
                                                          determine in
                                                          December of
                                                          the preceding
                                                          year and as
                                                          amended by the
                                                          Board. In no
                                                          event will
                                                          there be less
                                                          than one
                                                          meeting per
                                                          quarter. 
                                                          These meetings
                                                          will be open
                                                          to public
                                                          attendance,
                                                          however,
                                                          certain
                                                          portions of
                                                          the meeting
                                                          may be closed
                                                          to board
                                                          members  and
                                                          their
                                                          delegates when
                                                          required for
                                                          legal reasons,
                                                          or to shield
                                                          liability, or
                                                          to handle
                                                          personnel
                                                          issues, or
                                                          similar. 
                                                          Attendance in
                                                          person or
                                                          virtually by
                                                          board members
                                                          is required at
                                                          no less than
                                                          75% of the
                                                          total meetings
                                                          each year and
                                                          shall be
                                                          highly
                                                          encouraged to
                                                          meet in person
                                                          at least once
                                                          annually at a
                                                          date to be
                                                          announced and
                                                          agreed upon. 
                                                          Attendance is
                                                          tabulated
                                                          after every
                                                          scheduled
                                                          meeting for
                                                          the purpose of
                                                          determining if
                                                          the 75%
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirement
                                                          has been met,
                                                          and the
                                                          tabulation is
                                                          based upon the
                                                          entire
                                                          calendar
                                                          year. 
                                                          Cancelled
                                                          meetings are
                                                          considered
                                                          attended for
                                                          the purposes
                                                          of the
                                                          tabulation. 
                                                          Failure by a
                                                          board member
                                                          to meet the
                                                          75% attendance
                                                          requirement
                                                          after any
                                                          tabulation
                                                          will cause a
                                                          mandatory vote
                                                          of confidence
                                                          by the
                                                          remaining
                                                          board members,
                                                          whose votes
                                                          will be
                                                          publicly
                                                          recorded.  An
                                                          overall vote
                                                          of "no
                                                          confidence" is
                                                          recorded if
                                                          half or more
                                                          of the board
                                                          members vote
                                                          for it, which
                                                          causes the
                                                          board member
                                                          in question to
                                                          be instantly
                                                          removed from
                                                          their seat on
                                                          the board. 
                                                          Vacancies on
                                                          the board are
                                                          handled as per
                                                          Section 3.10.<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p>
                                                          <span>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><s>2
                                                          OWASP Board of
                                                          Directors will
                                                          hold quarterly
                                                          board meetings
                                                          lasting 4­6
                                                          hours each.
                                                          The schedule
                                                          of meetings
                                                          will be set by
                                                          the board in
                                                          December
                                                          before the
                                                          year. It is
                                                          likely the the
                                                          board meetings
                                                          will take
                                                          place on
                                                          Saturdays or
                                                          on a dedicated
                                                          day before a
                                                          large OWASP
                                                          conference.
                                                          This change is
                                                          a result of
                                                          the success of
                                                          the longer
                                                          format board
                                                          meeting and
                                                          also a result
                                                          of the
                                                          Executive
                                                          Director role
                                                          that has
                                                          enabled full
                                                          time
                                                          involvement
                                                          and focus on
                                                          OWASP
                                                          operations.
                                                          Board members
                                                          must attend
                                                          (in person or
                                                          virtually) 3
                                                          of the 4
                                                          meetings to
                                                          fulfill the
                                                          attendance
                                                          requirements.
                                                          This will take
                                                          effect in
                                                          January, 2014.
                                                          Changes passed
                                                          August 19,
                                                          2013.</s></p>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><s>3
                                                          “and shall be
                                                          highly
                                                          encouraged to
                                                          meet in person
                                                          at least once
                                                          annually at a
                                                          date to be
                                                          announced and
                                                          agreed upon”
                                                          amendment to
                                                          document
                                                          passed June
                                                          10, 2013.</s></p>
                                                          </span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          Do I have a
                                                          second?<span><font color="#888888"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                          <span><font color="#888888">~josh<br>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                          <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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                                                          <br>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
                                                          <span>Owasp-board

                                                          mailing list</span><br>
                                                          <span><a href="mailto:Owasp-board@lists.owasp.org" target="_blank">Owasp-board@lists.owasp.org</a></span><br>
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                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
                                                          <span>Owasp-board
                                                          mailing list</span><br>
                                                          <span><a href="mailto:Owasp-board@lists.owasp.org" target="_blank">Owasp-board@lists.owasp.org</a></span><br>
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                                              <br>
                                              <pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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    <br>
  

</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Owasp-board mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Owasp-board@lists.owasp.org">Owasp-board@lists.owasp.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>