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    A  few years ago the conference committee was about to do a OWASP
    Summit (at great expense) on a cruise ship, which is not very
    becoming for a non-profit charity. :) That is why the board killed
    the last summit.<br>
    <br>
    However, a project or other focused summit is really a good idea. I
    support it if we do it in a cost effective and sensible way.  No
    more open bar tab for you, Mr Cruz!   *wink*   By the same token,
    the Portugal summit was powerful in ways that still reverberate
    today, and I think doing something like that again would really
    benefit the foundation.<br>
    <br>
    Aloha,<br>
    Jim<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/10/14, 7:56 PM, Tony Turner wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAFm0_mw0qnyxHtqMnK_nsJb-1vLfwq+dbTxXbOJM5zoOEzCSqw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <p dir="ltr">I agree. I think summits are extremely important and
        I'm not sure why we don't do more of them. Honestly I'd love to
        see even small regional hackathons and summits see some
        traction. I run the Security B-sides Orlando conference every
        April and it's been huge for our local community and I'm
        starting to see projects and community collaboration kicking off
        as a result of it. Some of us do OWASP Day in our respective
        regions, but I've seen some that are little more than a vendor
        trade show with questionable value. We need more collaborative
        events with focused objectives. FOCUSED. </p>
      <p dir="ltr">What is our wish list of projects? How do we get from
        here to there? That's what I'm interested in. We are focusing
        too much on operational issues, meanwhile nothing (or very
        little) gets done. Let's empower the doers, and stop nitpicking
        over the details. </p>
      <div class="gmail_quote">On Apr 10, 2014 7:42 PM, "Dinis Cruz"
        <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dinis.cruz@owasp.org">dinis.cruz@owasp.org</a>>
        wrote:<br type="attribution">
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr">brilliant Tony, that was the best comment of
            the day!
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>maybe we should do another of these to get us back into
              Application Security mode: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://blog.diniscruz.com/2012/04/great-description-of-why-owasp-summits.html"
                target="_blank">http://blog.diniscruz.com/2012/04/great-description-of-why-owasp-summits.html</a></div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>:)</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Dinis</div>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
            <br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On 10 April 2014 23:34, Tony Turner
              <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:tony.turner@owasp.org" target="_blank">tony.turner@owasp.org</a>></span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <p dir="ltr">It's too bad application security topics
                  don't see the same level of participation. What was
                  our core mission again? ;) </p>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div class="gmail_quote">On Apr 10, 2014 6:25 PM,
                      "Abbas Naderi" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:abiusx@owasp.org" target="_blank">abiusx@owasp.org</a>>
                      wrote:<br type="attribution">
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
                        0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                        solid;padding-left:1ex">
                        <div style="word-wrap:break-word">What if it was
                          a cause with at least 6 OWASP members in it,
                          and was simply ignored (and never mentioned
                          again) because was not in interest of someone
                          at the board level or similar? That’s what I
                          mean by support. 
                          <div>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                          <div>I have seen several cases. The problem is
                            that members don’t feel that there is a
                            force supporting them, and feel that they
                            are dictated their terms by the board and
                            other high levels. This is what kills the
                            motivation, and from what I’ve seen so far
                            from other posts in this thread, everybody
                            is noticing it.
                            <div>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Regards</div>
                            <div>-A<br>
                              <div>
                                <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
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style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
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                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-weight:normal">
                                                          <div>______________________________________________________________</div>
                                                          <div><b>Notice:</b><b> </b>This
                                                          message is <b>digitally
                                                          signed</b>,
                                                          its <b>source</b> and <b>integrity</b> are
                                                          verifiable.</div>
                                                          <div>If you
                                                          mail client
                                                          does not
                                                          support S/MIME
                                                          verification,
                                                          it will
                                                          display a file
                                                          (smime.p7s),
                                                          which includes
                                                          the X.509
                                                          certificate
                                                          and the
                                                          signature
                                                          body.  Read
                                                          more at <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://abiusx.com/certified-e-mail-with-comodo-and-thunderbird/"
                                                          target="_blank">Certified
                                                          E-Mail with
                                                          Comodo and
                                                          Thunderbird</a> in
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://AbiusX.com" target="_blank">AbiusX.com</a></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                        </span></div>
                                                    </span></div>
                                                </span></div>
                                            </span></div>
                                        </span></div>
                                    </span></div>
                                </span>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                              <div>
                                <div>On Apr 10, 2014, at 6:19 PM, Josh
                                  Sokol <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org"
                                    target="_blank">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>>
                                  wrote:</div>
                                <br>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>There are a few
                                                  different
                                                  interpretations of
                                                  "proper support" and I
                                                  want to make sure I'm
                                                  understanding you
                                                  correctly:<br>
                                                  <br>
                                                </div>
                                                1) I couldn't get a
                                                Board member to sponsor
                                                this initiative.  <br>
                                                <br>
                                              </div>
                                              If this is the case, then
                                              sign me up.  I'm not sure
                                              I can put together all of
                                              the details that I asked
                                              you for, but I think the
                                              idea has merit and am
                                              willing to support/explore
                                              it as an option.<br>
                                              <br>
                                            </div>
                                            2) I tried and couldn't make
                                            it work.<br>
                                            <br>
                                          </div>
                                          If this is the case, then I'm
                                          not sure what to say.  I love
                                          the concept, but as I said the
                                          devil is in the details and
                                          I'm not sure how it would work
                                          in practice.<br>
                                          <br>
                                        </div>
                                        3) I stated an interest and
                                        nobody wanted to help.<br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      If this is the case, then maybe
                                      it's just a situation where you
                                      want something really bad, but
                                      they majority doesn't see the
                                      value in it as much as you do.  If
                                      you don't have enough motivation
                                      to pursue, and others are willing
                                      to discuss it with you but don't
                                      have the motivation to pursue,
                                      then I'd start to question whether
                                      it's actually something worth
                                      pursuing.  If you change your mind
                                      about that, then let me know as
                                      I'm happy to walk the path with
                                      you.<br>
                                      <br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>~josh<br>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                    <br>
                                    <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr
                                      10, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Abbas Naderi
                                      <span dir="ltr"><<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:abiusx@owasp.org"
                                          target="_blank">abiusx@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                      wrote:<br>
                                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                        style="margin:0 0 0
                                        .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                        solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                        <div
                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">Unfortunately
                                          I have tried a few times to do
                                          this, but without proper
                                          support it is just a dead
                                          cause. Its not that i’m trying
                                          to state my opinion here, I’m
                                          trying to describe issues that
                                          several members of the
                                          community face, and have
                                          discussed to me in person, but
                                          don’t have enough motivation
                                          to pursue. Its not about me,
                                          its about making the community
                                          a better place for everyone.
                                          Its about saving it.
                                          <div>
                                            <span><font color="#888888">-A</font></span>
                                            <div><br>
                                              <div>
                                                <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                  <div
                                                    style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                    <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                      <div
                                                        style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                        <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-weight:normal">
                                                          <div>______________________________________________________________</div>
                                                          <div><b>Notice:</b><b> </b>This
                                                          message is <b>digitally
                                                          signed</b>,
                                                          its <b>source</b> and <b>integrity</b> are
                                                          verifiable.</div>
                                                          <div>If you
                                                          mail client
                                                          does not
                                                          support S/MIME
                                                          verification,
                                                          it will
                                                          display a file
                                                          (smime.p7s),
                                                          which includes
                                                          the X.509
                                                          certificate
                                                          and the
                                                          signature
                                                          body.  Read
                                                          more at <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://abiusx.com/certified-e-mail-with-comodo-and-thunderbird/"
                                                          target="_blank">Certified
                                                          E-Mail with
                                                          Comodo and
                                                          Thunderbird</a> in
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://abiusx.com/" target="_blank">AbiusX.com</a></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                        </span></div>
                                                    </span></div>
                                                </span>
                                              </div>
                                              <br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>On Apr 10, 2014,
                                                    at 6:03 PM, Josh
                                                    Sokol <<a
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org" target="_blank">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>>
                                                    wrote:</div>
                                                  <br>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite">
                                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>Abbas,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        Just because you
                                                        didn't get
                                                        elected doesn't
                                                        mean that you
                                                        have to throw in
                                                        the towel.  I
                                                        know what I
                                                        promised to do
                                                        when I ran for a
                                                        Board seat, but
                                                        can't say that I
                                                        remember
                                                        everything that
                                                        everyone else
                                                        said they would
                                                        do.  As with
                                                        anything, the
                                                        devil is in the
                                                        details, but I'm
                                                        certainly not
                                                        opposed to your
                                                        idea.  I don't
                                                        think there's
                                                        anything
                                                        currently
                                                        stopping you
                                                        from running a
                                                        petition if you
                                                        feel that the
                                                        Board has done
                                                        something
                                                        egregious that
                                                        needs to be
                                                        undone.  The
                                                        couple of
                                                        initiatives that
                                                        I've passed
                                                        since being
                                                        elected were
                                                        done with
                                                        unanimous
                                                        support of the
                                                        Board and
                                                        majority support
                                                        from those who
                                                        responded from
                                                        the community
                                                        inquiries.  The
                                                        concept of a
                                                        veto is a bit
                                                        more difficult
                                                        to enforce and
                                                        I'm curious how
                                                        this would work
                                                        in practice.  Is
                                                        there a
                                                        percentage of
                                                        people that
                                                        would have to
                                                        respond to a
                                                        veto request? 
                                                        Do they have to
                                                        be members?  Is
                                                        there a number
                                                        of "in favor"
                                                        votes that has
                                                        to be reached
                                                        for it to be
                                                        successful?  Is
                                                        there a time
                                                        constraint on
                                                        how long after
                                                        an action is
                                                        initiated that
                                                        it can be
                                                        repealed?  Are
                                                        there others in
                                                        the community
                                                        who feel like
                                                        the Board has
                                                        done something
                                                        so egregiously
                                                        bad that it
                                                        needs to be
                                                        repealed? 
                                                        Regardless, I'd
                                                        be happy to work
                                                        with you to set
                                                        up a formal
                                                        proposal here if
                                                        you'd like to do
                                                        so?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      ~josh<br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div
                                                      class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="gmail_quote">On
                                                        Thu, Apr 10,
                                                        2014 at 4:46 PM,
                                                        Abbas Naderi <span
                                                          dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:abiusx@owasp.org" target="_blank">abiusx@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                                        wrote:<br>
                                                        <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
                                                          style="margin:0
                                                          0 0
                                                          .8ex;border-left:1px
                                                          #ccc
                                                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">Josh,
                                                          <div>If you
                                                          remember, I
                                                          had similar
                                                          ideas for the
                                                          board, as I
                                                          was running
                                                          for it as
                                                          well. My idea
                                                          was to allow a
                                                          veto role for
                                                          the community,
                                                          because it is
                                                          not viable and
                                                          clever to ask
                                                          for community
                                                          polls on
                                                          typical
                                                          matters, as it
                                                          does not
                                                          involve
                                                          everyone, and
                                                          they clearly
                                                          won’t
                                                          participate
                                                          when they are
                                                          not involved.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>But a
                                                          veto role, is
                                                          a different
                                                          matter. If
                                                          someone in the
                                                          community
                                                          feels
                                                          undermined by
                                                          a process
                                                          enforced by
                                                          the board,
                                                          they can run
                                                          their
                                                          campaign, get
                                                          more votes and
                                                          undo the
                                                          decision they
                                                          though was
                                                          wrong in the
                                                          first place.
                                                          This is what
                                                          we need, and
                                                          those
                                                          decisions are
                                                          really hurting
                                                          people, making
                                                          them lose hope
                                                          for the better
                                                          in this
                                                          community.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Unfortunately
                                                          the previous
                                                          board and the
                                                          current board
                                                          haven’t done
                                                          anything
                                                          significant
                                                          towards this,
                                                          and it seems
                                                          to me that no
                                                          priority
                                                          effort is
                                                          being made.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Thanks </div>
                                                          <span><font
                                                          color="#888888">
                                                          -Abbas</font></span>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-weight:normal">
                                                          <div>______________________________________________________________</div>
                                                          <div><b>Notice:</b><b> </b>This
                                                          message is <b>digitally
                                                          signed</b>,
                                                          its <b>source</b> and <b>integrity</b> are
                                                          verifiable.</div>
                                                          <div>If you
                                                          mail client
                                                          does not
                                                          support S/MIME
                                                          verification,
                                                          it will
                                                          display a file
                                                          (smime.p7s),
                                                          which includes
                                                          the X.509
                                                          certificate
                                                          and the
                                                          signature
                                                          body.  Read
                                                          more at <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://abiusx.com/certified-e-mail-with-comodo-and-thunderbird/"
                                                          target="_blank">Certified
                                                          E-Mail with
                                                          Comodo and
                                                          Thunderbird</a> in
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://abiusx.com/" target="_blank">AbiusX.com</a></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>On Apr
                                                          10, 2014, at
                                                          5:42 PM, Josh
                                                          Sokol <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org" target="_blank">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>>
                                                          wrote:</div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>Abbas,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          One of the
                                                          ideas that I
                                                          (and I believe
                                                          Tobias as
                                                          well)
                                                          championed
                                                          when running
                                                          for the Board
                                                          was the idea
                                                          of bringing
                                                          the power back
                                                          to the
                                                          community.  I
                                                          have raised
                                                          this as an
                                                          item to the
                                                          Board with the
                                                          hopes of
                                                          adding a sort
                                                          of community
                                                          referendum to
                                                          the election
                                                          later this
                                                          year.  In the
                                                          meantime, you
                                                          have seen
                                                          several
                                                          examples of
                                                          polling the
                                                          community for
                                                          input on
                                                          various topics
                                                          and we are
                                                          working to
                                                          bring you a
                                                          new voting
                                                          platform that
                                                          will allow
                                                          even more of
                                                          this type of
                                                          community
                                                          inquiry.  The
                                                          caveat is that
                                                          people have to
                                                          actually vote
                                                          and, as is the
                                                          case with the
                                                          latest poll,
                                                          our "turnout"
                                                          numbers have
                                                          been
                                                          relatively
                                                          low.  Since
                                                          the community
                                                          is made up of
                                                          more than just
                                                          leaders,
                                                          you've seen
                                                          Michael's
                                                          proposal to
                                                          transition to
                                                          a full
                                                          community
                                                          involvement
                                                          model instead
                                                          of just having
                                                          a leaders list
                                                          and hopefully
                                                          this will
                                                          increase those
                                                          poll numbers
                                                          even more.  In
                                                          my opinion,
                                                          the issues
                                                          that you bring
                                                          up are in
                                                          large part due
                                                          to actions by
                                                          the Board in
                                                          the past and I
                                                          do see the
                                                          current Board
                                                          trying to
                                                          address them. 
                                                          Change won't
                                                          happen
                                                          overnight, but
                                                          I do see us
                                                          moving in the
                                                          right
                                                          direction. 
                                                          Hopefully you
                                                          can stick
                                                          around long
                                                          enough for us
                                                          to right the
                                                          ship.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          ~josh<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">On
                                                          Thu, Apr 10,
                                                          2014 at 4:28
                                                          PM, Abbas
                                                          Naderi <span
                                                          dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:abiusx@owasp.org" target="_blank">abiusx@owasp.org</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
                                                          style="margin:0
                                                          0 0
                                                          .8ex;border-left:1px
                                                          #ccc
                                                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">Dennis,
                                                          <div>That is a
                                                          perfectly
                                                          valid
                                                          explanation. I
                                                          have been
                                                          faced with
                                                          several of
                                                          these myself,
                                                          and it has
                                                          really
                                                          affected the
                                                          way I love and
                                                          contribute to
                                                          OWASP. Now
                                                          when I have an
                                                          idea, instead
                                                          of making it
                                                          an OWASP
                                                          project, I
                                                          look elsewhere
                                                          for a
                                                          platform, and
                                                          all of you
                                                          people know me
                                                          and probably
                                                          are aware of
                                                          the
                                                          contributions
                                                          I have made to
                                                          the community
                                                          over several
                                                          years.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>The list
                                                          you provided
                                                          is most of the
                                                          cases, but
                                                          there are
                                                          definitely
                                                          cases not
                                                          mentioned
                                                          there, like
                                                          manipulating
                                                          and forcing
                                                          decisions and
                                                          actions at the
                                                          board level.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>I believe
                                                          we need a
                                                          change of
                                                          management
                                                          model for
                                                          OWASP. This is
                                                          clearly not
                                                          working (IMHO)
                                                          and these days
                                                          I have a deep
                                                          sensation of
                                                          leaving it all
                                                          for good and
                                                          spending my
                                                          time somewhere
                                                          more
                                                          productive.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Thanks</div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>-Abbas<br>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <span
style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-weight:normal">
                                                          <div>______________________________________________________________</div>
                                                          <div><b>Notice:</b><b> </b>This
                                                          message is <b>digitally
                                                          signed</b>,
                                                          its <b>source</b> and <b>integrity</b> are
                                                          verifiable.</div>
                                                          <div>If you
                                                          mail client
                                                          does not
                                                          support S/MIME
                                                          verification,
                                                          it will
                                                          display a file
                                                          (smime.p7s),
                                                          which includes
                                                          the X.509
                                                          certificate
                                                          and the
                                                          signature
                                                          body.  Read
                                                          more at <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://abiusx.com/certified-e-mail-with-comodo-and-thunderbird/"
                                                          target="_blank">Certified
                                                          E-Mail with
                                                          Comodo and
                                                          Thunderbird</a> in
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://abiusx.com/" target="_blank">AbiusX.com</a></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>On Apr
                                                          10, 2014, at
                                                          5:06 PM,
                                                          Dennis Groves
                                                          <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dennis.groves@owasp.org" target="_blank">dennis.groves@owasp.org</a>>
                                                          wrote:</div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">Michael, 
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">I
                                                          applaud you
                                                          Michael for
                                                          taking the
                                                          reigns of
                                                          leadership and
                                                          setting both a
                                                          vision and a
                                                          positive
                                                          example for
                                                          OWASP. </span>What
                                                          a great post!
                                                          You have
                                                          really
                                                          captured the
                                                          spirit of
                                                          OWASP and I
                                                          hope you
                                                          succeed in
                                                          keeping it
                                                          alive. Like
                                                          you, I stand
                                                          behind both
                                                          the awesome
                                                          staff and
                                                          community of
                                                          OWASP. </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>However,
                                                          I have great
                                                          concerns about
                                                          the future of
                                                          OWASP, because
                                                          the board
                                                          serves as an
                                                          example for
                                                          the community.
                                                          As you have
                                                          indicated you
                                                          cannot do this
                                                          alone, we all
                                                          have to pitch
                                                          in. Not
                                                          everybody on
                                                          the board is a
                                                          rotten apple,
                                                          most of you
                                                          are awesome.
                                                          Unfortunately
                                                          it only takes
                                                          one rotten
                                                          apple to spoil
                                                          the whole
                                                          barrel. </div>
                                                          <div><span
style="font-size:13px;color:rgb(54,43,54);font-family:sans-serif;line-height:19.200000762939453px"><br>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          <div><span
style="font-size:13px;color:rgb(54,43,54);font-family:sans-serif;line-height:19.200000762939453px">Some
                                                          examples I
                                                          have observed
                                                          of rotten
                                                          leadership:</span></div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
                                                          <ul>
                                                          <li
                                                          style="margin-left:15px">Publicly
                                                          undermining
                                                          OWASP
                                                          employees by
                                                          an OWASP Board
                                                          member.</li>
                                                          <li
                                                          style="margin-left:15px">Publicly
                                                          undermining
                                                          OWASP
                                                          volunteers by
                                                          an OWASP Board
                                                          member.<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li
                                                          style="margin-left:15px"><font
                                                          face="arial,
                                                          sans-serif">Privately undermining
                                                          OWASP leaders
                                                          by an OWASP
                                                          Board member.</font></li>
                                                          <li
                                                          style="margin-left:15px"><font
                                                          face="arial,
                                                          sans-serif">Privately
                                                          undermining
                                                          OWASP
                                                          employees by
                                                          an OWASP Board
                                                          member.</font></li>
                                                          <li
                                                          style="margin-left:15px"><font
                                                          face="arial,
                                                          sans-serif">Publicly
                                                          undermining
                                                          OWASP projects
                                                          by an OWASP
                                                          Board member.</font></li>
                                                          <li
                                                          style="margin-left:15px"><font
                                                          face="arial,
                                                          sans-serif">Privately
                                                          undermining
                                                          OWASP projects
                                                          by an OWASP
                                                          Board member.</font></li>
                                                          </ul>
                                                          <ul>
                                                          <li
                                                          style="margin-left:15px">OWASP
                                                          Board members
                                                          have caused
                                                          OWASP to lose
                                                          money from
                                                          conference
                                                          revenues.<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li
                                                          style="margin-left:15px"><font
                                                          face="arial,
                                                          sans-serif">OWASP
                                                          Board members
                                                          have caused
                                                          OWASP to lose
                                                          corporate
                                                          sponsorship's.</font></li>
                                                          <li
                                                          style="margin-left:15px"><font
                                                          face="arial,
                                                          sans-serif">OWASP
                                                          Board members
                                                          have caused
                                                          OWASP to lose
                                                          projects. </font></li>
                                                          </ul>
                                                          <ul>
                                                          <li
                                                          style="margin-left:15px">OWASP
                                                          Board members
                                                          have harassed OWASP
                                                          employees
                                                          privately.<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li
                                                          style="margin-left:15px"><font
                                                          face="arial,
                                                          sans-serif">OWASP
                                                          Board members
                                                          have abused
                                                          OWASP
                                                          employees
                                                          publicly.</font></li>
                                                          </ul>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
                                                          <div>All of
                                                          these things
                                                          have gone on
                                                          habitually.
                                                          Most of the
                                                          time they are
                                                          thinly veiled
                                                          under the
                                                          guise of
                                                          'ethics' and
                                                          yet all of
                                                          these
                                                          behaviors are
                                                          in direct
                                                          conflict with
                                                          the duty of
                                                          loyalty to the
                                                          OWASP
                                                          foundation. <i><span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,0)">Additionally, it sets up an
                                                          unprofessional
                                                          example of
                                                          'standard of
                                                          behavior' for
                                                          the community
                                                          to follow, and
                                                          this is
                                                          exactly what
                                                          is happening.</span></i></div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          style="background-color:rgb(255,255,0)"><br>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          <div>I
                                                          regularly hear
                                                          from both
                                                          sponsors and
                                                          leaders that
                                                          no longer want
                                                          to participate
                                                          in OWASP
                                                          anymore due to
                                                          the examples I
                                                          have cited
                                                          above. I spend
                                                          my OWASP
                                                          donation hours
                                                          managing fires
                                                          like this,
                                                          when I could
                                                          be building
                                                          and
                                                          contributing
                                                          to the
                                                          community with
                                                          my precious
                                                          little free
                                                          time.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>It has
                                                          come to a
                                                          point that I
                                                          may no longer
                                                          recommend that
                                                          the public
                                                          join or
                                                          support OWASP
                                                          because of the
                                                          unprofessional
                                                          behavior
                                                          emanating from
                                                          the board. <i
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,0)">And I feel it is a very sad day
                                                          when <b>I can
                                                          not recommend</b>
                                                          OWASP,
                                                          something I
                                                          genuinely want
                                                          to be proud to
                                                          be a part of,
                                                          to people I
                                                          love and
                                                          respect.</i></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_extra">--
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div dir="ltr"><span><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="http://about.me/dennis.groves"
target="_blank">Dennis Groves</a>, MSc</span></span>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <span><span
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dennis.groves@owasp.org"
                                                          target="_blank">Email
                                                          me,</a> or <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://goo.gl/8sPIy" target="_blank">schedule
                                                          a meeting</a>.<br>
                                                          </span></span></div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="text-align:left"><i><span><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">This email is licensed under a <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="license"
                                                          href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/deed.en_GB"
target="_blank">CC BY-ND 3.0</a> license.</span></span></i></div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="text-align:left"><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font color="#999999"><span><span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,0)"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/secure-boot/statement"
target="_blank">Stand up for your freedom to install free software.</a></span></span><br>
                                                          </font></span><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font color="#999999"><span
                                                          style="color:rgb(102,102,102)">Please
                                                          do not send me
                                                          Microsoft
                                                          Office/Apple
                                                          iWork
                                                          documents. <br>
                                                          Send <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/" target="_blank">OpenDocument</a>
                                                          instead!</span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </font></span>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="text-align:left"><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"><font
                                                          color="#999999"><span
style="border-collapse:collapse"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="http://www.owasp.org/"
target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          src="http://www.owasp.org/skins/monobook/ologo.png"
                                                          height="92"
                                                          width="96"></a></span></font></font></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          OWASP-Leaders
                                                          mailing list<br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org" target="_blank">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders"
                                                          target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          OWASP-Leaders
                                                          mailing list<br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org" target="_blank">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders"
                                                          target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </blockquote>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <br>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                </div>
                                                <br>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
                                    <br>
                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <br>
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        OWASP-Leaders mailing list<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org"
                          target="_blank">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a><br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders"
                          target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a><br>
                        <br>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <br>
                _______________________________________________<br>
                OWASP-Leaders mailing list<br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org"
                  target="_blank">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a><br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders"
                  target="_blank">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a><br>
                <br>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <br>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OWASP-Leaders mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org">OWASP-Leaders@lists.owasp.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders">https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-leaders</a>
</pre>
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