<p dir="ltr">I'm in support of josh's approach here. Let's provide good examples and empower the chapter leader. No need to bog down in extra process. We can handle the infrequent scenarios that go wrong instead of adding heavy policy that impacts everyone.</p>

<div class="gmail_quote">On Apr 2, 2014 8:17 AM, "Josh Sokol" <<a href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>No offense meant, but this is spoken like a guy who has not run a chapter.  Quite frequently our leaders are presented with opportunities.  Many of these opportunities, while backed by commercial interests, are offered for free or at significantly reduced cost to OWASP members.  Passing those opportunities along to members does not imply support of a vendor, merely that an opportunity exists that could provide value.  If you want to add a disclaimer at the bottom of messages saying that the OWASP Foundation does not endorse product or services, then I have no issue with that, other than how you're ever going to actually enforce it.  The only issue with being vendor agnostic comes if a leader is excluding one vendor, but allowing another in similar circumstances.  Do you have examples where this is the case?  <br>

<br></div>My thought is that if we are going to generate a rule on this, it should be that commericial SPAM from any vendor is not allowed on the mailing lists, but it can be sent to the chapter leader for review and to pass along if it provides value to our membership.  A great example is the Innotech Conference that comes to Austin annually.  It's definitely a commercial, for-profit, venture, but each year they provide us with a free attendance code to provide to our membership.  It definitely provides value as they have lots of technology tracks and even a security track there.  Why would I not want to provide my membership with that opportunity just because it is backed by a company that makes money?  <br>

<br></div>I don't agree with the "let's make exceptions" approach either.  Too much red tape for something that should be in our leaders hands anyway.  We should trust our leadership to do the right thing, but have a process in place to handle when they don't.<br>

<br></div>~josh<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 4:41 AM, Jim Manico <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim.manico@owasp.org" target="_blank">jim.manico@owasp.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    I tend to agree with Eoin on this point. We really need to limit any
    appearance of commercial activity.  I would support a rule where "no
    commercial spamming on OWASP lists" is the norm. We would have the
    make exceptions such as ads in the the newsletter and similar...<br>
    <br>
    Before making this call I think we should talk to the other chapter
    leaders in regards to what they think about this.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
    <br>
    - Jim</font></span><div><div><br>
    <br>
    
    
    <br>
    <div>On 4/1/14, 8:57 AM, Eoin Keary wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <div>We don't want to jeopardise out charity status by promoting
        commercial activities. A rule helps prevent that. A community
        vote help establish the rule.</div>
      <div>Just sayin...<br>
        <br>
        Eoin Keary
        <div>Owasp Global Board</div>
        <div><a href="tel:%2B353%2087%20977%202988" value="+353879772988" target="_blank">+353 87 977 2988</a></div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        On 1 Apr 2014, at 19:04, Josh Sokol <<a href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org" target="_blank">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>>
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div>Sure.  But sometimes chapters only have one person at
              the helm.  And if the leader is being selective without a
              good reason, then hopefully that gets brought to the
              attention of our staff or the Board and we can handle it. 
              I don't think this is an issue until it is an issue.<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            ~josh<br>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
            <br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 12:58 PM,
              Eoin Keary <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:eoin.keary@owasp.org" target="_blank">eoin.keary@owasp.org</a>></span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div dir="auto">
                  <div>There may be conflict of interest/bias at play if
                    decision issue by 1 person.</div>
                  <span><font color="#888888">
                      <div>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        Eoin Keary
                        <div>Owasp Global Board</div>
                        <div><a href="tel:%2B353%2087%20977%202988" value="+353879772988" target="_blank">+353
                            87 977 2988</a></div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </font></span>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div><br>
                        On 1 Apr 2014, at 17:12, Josh Sokol <<a href="mailto:josh.sokol@owasp.org" target="_blank">josh.sokol@owasp.org</a>>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div>
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div>My personal feeling is that any
                              advertisements should be sent to the
                              chapter leader and not to the list.  The
                              chapter leader then has the responsibility
                              to decide if the offer is of value to the
                              members and whether to pass it along or
                              not.<br>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                            ~josh<br>
                          </div>
                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                            <br>
                            <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 1, 2014
                              at 11:10 AM, Fabio Cerullo <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fcerullo@owasp.org" target="_blank">fcerullo@owasp.org</a>></span>
                              wrote:<br>
                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                <div dir="ltr">hi there,
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>I'm going to submit a community
                                      vote to the leaders list this
                                      Friday 4th April.</div>
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div><b>OWASP "No-Advertising"
                                        Policy</b><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>At present our rules are not
                                      clear on commercial advertising
                                      through the OWASP mailing lists
                                      and some chapters allow this and
                                      others don't.  It has been
                                      suggested to have a "no
                                      advertising" policy on all of our
                                      mailing lists.  So then the
                                      question is "what is advertising?"
                                       Any commercial activity such as
                                      training, consulting services, or
                                      paid conferences. These activities
                                      have to be reviewed and handled by
                                      OWASP HQ before posting them to
                                      the mailing lists.<br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><br>
                                      </span></div>
                                    <div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://docs.google.com/a/owasp.org/forms/d/1R_u0eRFsc5VQpmcWelUfck5hDuLPsmEpA_jDHKu87Qk/viewform" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/a/owasp.org/forms/d/1R_u0eRFsc5VQpmcWelUfck5hDuLPsmEpA_jDHKu87Qk/viewform</a></font><br>


                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Your comments are welcome. </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Thanks<span><font color="#888888"><br>
                                        Fabio</font></span></div>
                                  <div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div>
                                    <font face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
                                    </font></div>
                                </div>
                                <br>
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                                <br>
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
                            <br>
                          </div>
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                      </blockquote>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
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                </div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>
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