[Owasp-board] Fwd: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status

Seba seba at owasp.org
Sun Oct 8 08:26:37 UTC 2017


Hi Andrew,

I am pretty sure that an email to accounting would have resulted in a
forward to you and Matt how to handle this?

You cannot expect from the project/chapter leaders to know about all the
boards decisions.

Looking at what was decided:
Motion: P10 - Accounts with a balance of $5,000 or more as of December 1,
with no proposed budget for spending their funds, *will be contacted by the
OWASP staff directly to review their account balance*.
*We were not contacted by the OWASP staff. And were not aware of having to
submit a budget.*
Furthermore when looking at:
Motion: P7 - The OWASP Foundation *Staff will be responsible for notifying
all chapters and projects of their available account balance on at least a
monthly basis*. The notification should also include a reference to where
they can go to find the list of pre-approved expenses.
*We have not seen this, it was only because we requested a detailed balance
last September that we got insight in the removed money from our available
budget.*

When I look at the board meeting minutes of Oct-2015, I do not see a
detailed proposal or rationale on these motions.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iun7xfeJI9vU0rEbIoix46ge1h_kQ_3WqeAG8e2ctPs/edit
(I am not going to listen to a complete recording for this).

I can only assume this was initiated for inactive chapter/projects (where
you should just recoup all their budget).
The SAMM project is active and we put a lot of time/resources in generating
income for the project and the foundation.
Part of the income was generated by giving SAMM training at appsec
conferences, where 60% of the revenue was directly for the foundation and
40% was allocated to the SAMM project.
Recouping our budget - which we need to further develop SAMMv2 and
organize/support SAMM and community summits - makes me feel that our
volunteer efforts are underappreciated.

I can understand that you want to activate the budget at the
chapter/projects - but you cannot do this "by policy" without an active
communication and involvement of the staff and the volunteers.

So I come back to our original question: *Please refund the 3677.22 USD to
the OWASP SAMM project ?*

I also suggest to contact all the chapters/project leaders individually for
budgeting 2018, as I have not seen this either...
Secondly: instead of making budget available to projects/chapters we should
teach them how to raise income through sponsorship, training, events,
books, ...

Kind regards

Seba

On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 10:36 PM Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org>
wrote:

> Hi Seba and Brian
>
> I'm sorry, I've been onsite doing crazy flying hours. As Tom Brennan
> notes, I am not operational. If you need to get something like this looked
> at, you need to mail accounting at owasp.org which goes to a group alias
> that our finance team can process. The process as agreed by the Board in
> 2015 was that projects and chapters who did not submit a budget OR were
> inactive had a reduction to a $5k balance. You did not submit a budget.
> There's no question OpenSAMM was active, but the OR part is that you didn't
> submit a budget. This will be happening again soon.
>
> Here's the extract of your transactions. With your $10k donation to the
> Developer Summit, your forthcoming travel of $1739 to the OpenSAMM summit
> in November and the $3677.22 reduction to $5k in December last year, the
> balance is currently $0 across both the EU and US chapter balances.
>
> What do you need and how can we move this forward? We have Community
> Engagement funds, and if you've not used it yet in 2017, you have $2k
> available under that program. I'm happy to approve that right now if that's
> what you need.
>
> thanks,
> Andrew
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Tom Brennan <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:
>
>> Agreed and as you know we are ALL volunteers and the only way to address
>> when managing to policy and resources have been exhausted.
>>
>> Thanks Seba.
>>
>> Tom Brennan
>> 973-202-0122 <(973)%20202-0122>
>>
>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Seba <seba at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>> hi,
>>
>> I have added this to the board agenda -
>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/October_11,_2017
>> I will not be able to attend as this is the middle of the night in Europe.
>> Maybe Brian can?
>>
>> I raised this immediately to Andrew & staff when we got the detailed
>> overview of income/expenses for the project.
>> not getting any response and now having to add this to the board agenda
>> does not seem very efficient use of time of the involved volunteers.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Seba
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 3:41 PM Tom Brennan <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for the insight Brian. Operationally,  Projects are managed by
>>> Matt T and Claudia it appears that those options have been exhausted.
>>>
>>> Since on the surface the issue that needs additional clarity and was not
>>> able to be resolved by staff to satisfaction managing to currently written
>>> policy as a guideline then as the Secretary I would recommend to all
>>> members as I always do, 1) in advance (preferred 10 days) add new business
>>> item to the board wiki agenda https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Board 2)
>>> Have a representative attend the board meeting 3) the OpenSAMM project
>>> leader(a) to speak (when new business is called for a block of time) to
>>> this item on the upcoming monthly global board agenda resulting in a motion
>>> and a vote of its elected leaders to resolve it (that is the appeal)
>>>
>>> Since we operate in a decentralized community meeting monthly for the
>>> purpose of official OWASP business the member shall simply edit and add as
>>> new business a item to be raised otherwise it will never be officially
>>> reviewed and voted on by the elected leadership to be resolved by a
>>> majority vote.  There is no ivory tower that is how and the purpose of a
>>> elected board of directors when operational issues need additional focus
>>> effecting members.
>>>
>>> This democratic process using Roberts rules is super important to
>>> understand especially as we move to a election cycle that starts on October
>>> 9th people have to VOTE with what they want OWASP to be in the future
>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/2017_Global_Board_of_Directors_Election it
>>> is also a great opportunity for incoming board candidates to be part of the
>>> discussion.
>>>
>>> Tom Brennan
>>> 973-202-0122 <(973)%20202-0122>
>>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Brian Glas <brian.glas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tom,
>>> This isn't related to the summit or a traditional reimbursement.
>>>
>>> The original request was related to a withdrawal of funds from our
>>> budget that we very much disagreed with.
>>>
>>> "*We cannot agree to line 65* "Recouping funds from projects that are
>>> either inactive, or did not submit a budget for 2017"
>>>
>>> 1) OWASP SAMM is one of the most active flagship projects for the last
>>> couple of years, we even had a project summit during the last 3 years
>>> (hence the income)
>>> 2) None of the SAMM project leaders did get a request to submit a budget
>>> for 2017. If we would have received that we should surely have provided one.
>>>
>>> *Please refund the 3677.22 USD to the OWASP SAMM project ?*
>>> We need this to cover our project team summit expenses in November."
>>>
>>> I'm not clear on what the dispute process is for something like this, so
>>> if you can point us to that, it would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 7:39 AM, Tom Brennan <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If the project team had the funding and they submit a reimbursement
>>>> Andrew should not be in the middle when managing to the existing
>>>> reimbursement policy in the current project handbook. He’s not operational
>>>> and appointed to the treasurer role to keep the global budget in check not
>>>> individual transactions.
>>>>
>>>> Oct 11 this can be noted as old business re Summit to get it resolved
>>>> if needed Seba. Please have a representative join the public meeting to
>>>> speak to it https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Board
>>>>
>>>> Tom Brennan
>>>> 973-202-0122 <(973)%20202-0122>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 2:18 AM, Seba <seba at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>> As I am not getting a response from Andrew: I am escalating this to the
>>>> board.
>>>>
>>>> *We cannot agree to line 65* "Recouping funds from projects that are
>>>> either inactive, or did not submit a budget for 2017"
>>>>
>>>> 1) OWASP SAMM is one of the most active flagship projects for the last
>>>> couple of years, we even had a project summit during the last 3 years
>>>> (hence the income)
>>>> 2) None of the SAMM project leaders did get a request to submit a
>>>> budget for 2017. If we would have received that we should surely have
>>>> provided one.
>>>>
>>>> *Please refund the 3677.22 USD to the OWASP SAMM project?*
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>> Seba
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: Seba <seba at owasp.org>
>>>> Date: Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 6:34 PM
>>>> Subject: Fwd: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>> To: Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org>, Matt Tesauro <
>>>> matt.tesauro at owasp.org>, Tom Pappas <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>
>>>> Cc: Bart De Win <bart.dewin at owasp.org>, Brian Glas <
>>>> brian.glas at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> hi Andrew
>>>>
>>>> nudge, nudge ?? :-)
>>>>
>>>> Can you confirm you get this email?
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>>
>>>> Seba
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: Seba <seba at owasp.org>
>>>> Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 9:40 AM
>>>> Subject: Fwd: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>> To: Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org>, Matt Tesauro <
>>>> matt.tesauro at owasp.org>, Tom Pappas <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>
>>>> Cc: Bart De Win <bart.dewin at owasp.org>, Brian Glas <
>>>> brian.glas at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrew,
>>>>
>>>> Can you confirm the refund of 3677.22 USD to the OWASP SAMM project ?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Seba
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: Seba <seba at owasp.org>
>>>> Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 9:25 PM
>>>> Subject: Fwd: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>> To: Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org>, Matt Tesauro <
>>>> matt.tesauro at owasp.org>, Tom Pappas <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>
>>>> Cc: Brian Glas <brian.glas at gmail.com>, Bart De Win <
>>>> bart.dewin at owasp.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gents,
>>>>
>>>> *We cannot agree to line 65* "Recouping funds from projects that are
>>>> either inactive, or did not submit a budget for 2017"
>>>>
>>>> 1) OWASP SAMM is one of the most active flagship projects for the last
>>>> couple of years, we even had a project summit during the last 3 years
>>>> (hence the income)
>>>> 2) None of the SAMM project leaders did get a request to submit a
>>>> budget for 2017. If we would have received that we should surely have
>>>> provided one.
>>>>
>>>> *Please refund the 3677.22 USD to the OWASP SAMM project ?*
>>>> We need this to cover our project team summit expenses in November.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>> Seba
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: Tom Pappas <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>
>>>> Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 1:14 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>> To: Seba <seba at owasp.org>, Andrew van der Stock (vanderaj at owasp.org) <
>>>> vanderaj at owasp.org>
>>>> Cc: Matt Tesauro (matt.tesauro at owasp.org) <matt.tesauro at owasp.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello Seba,  here you go there are two tabs as Open SAMM has both a US
>>>> and EU balance.  These are from the beginning of the proj through 7.31.17
>>>> which is the last month we have closed.  Take care
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thomas S. Pappas, MSA |   Senior Vice President of Finance &
>>>> Administration | Virtual, Inc.
>>>>
>>>> D: +1-781-876-8914 <(781)%20876-8914>
>>>>
>>>> F:  +1-781-623-8460 <(781)%20623-8460>
>>>>
>>>> *tpappas at virtualmgmt.com <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>*
>>>>
>>>> 401 Edgewater Place, Suite 600, Wakefield, MA 01880
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+Edgewater+Place,+Suite+600,+Wakefield,+MA+01880&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Seba [mailto:seba at owasp.org]
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 10, 2017 5:46 AM
>>>> *To:* Alison Shrader <accounting at owasp.org>
>>>> *Subject:* [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can you provide a detailed overview of income/expenses for the SAMM
>>>> project for the last year?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seba
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
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>>>>
>>>> <OpenSamm US and EU Balance as of 7.31.17.xlsx>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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