[Owasp-board] [Owasp-leaders] Fwd: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status

Josh Sokol josh.sokol at owasp.org
Sun Oct 8 06:05:16 UTC 2017


The budgeting process was never intended to be used to take money from
active chapters and projects who had plans to use their funds.  It was
meant as a way to recoup the funds from inactive chapters and projects or
ones who were holding onto way more money than they could ever spend.  The
thing that concerns me here is that Seba states "None of the SAMM project
leaders did get a request to submit a budget for 2017. If we would have
received that we should surely have provided one."  Notification of the
need for budgeting was one of the fundamental cornerstones of the rules
that we voted on for repurposing those funds.  Andrew, could you please
help to shed some light as to how and when the OpenSAMM group was notified
of the need for budgeting?  For me at least, that would make a difference
in terms of whether I'd ask to give them back that money or not.  Thanks!

~josh

On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org>
wrote:

> Hi Seba and Brian
>
> I'm sorry, I've been onsite doing crazy flying hours. As Tom Brennan
> notes, I am not operational. If you need to get something like this looked
> at, you need to mail accounting at owasp.org which goes to a group alias
> that our finance team can process. The process as agreed by the Board in
> 2015 was that projects and chapters who did not submit a budget OR were
> inactive had a reduction to a $5k balance. You did not submit a budget.
> There's no question OpenSAMM was active, but the OR part is that you didn't
> submit a budget. This will be happening again soon.
>
> Here's the extract of your transactions. With your $10k donation to the
> Developer Summit, your forthcoming travel of $1739 to the OpenSAMM summit
> in November and the $3677.22 reduction to $5k in December last year, the
> balance is currently $0 across both the EU and US chapter balances.
>
> What do you need and how can we move this forward? We have Community
> Engagement funds, and if you've not used it yet in 2017, you have $2k
> available under that program. I'm happy to approve that right now if that's
> what you need.
>
> thanks,
> Andrew
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Tom Brennan <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:
>
>> Agreed and as you know we are ALL volunteers and the only way to address
>> when managing to policy and resources have been exhausted.
>>
>> Thanks Seba.
>>
>> Tom Brennan
>> 973-202-0122 <(973)%20202-0122>
>>
>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Seba <seba at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>> hi,
>>
>> I have added this to the board agenda - https://www.owasp.org/index.
>> php/October_11,_2017
>> I will not be able to attend as this is the middle of the night in Europe.
>> Maybe Brian can?
>>
>> I raised this immediately to Andrew & staff when we got the detailed
>> overview of income/expenses for the project.
>> not getting any response and now having to add this to the board agenda
>> does not seem very efficient use of time of the involved volunteers.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Seba
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 3:41 PM Tom Brennan <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for the insight Brian. Operationally,  Projects are managed by
>>> Matt T and Claudia it appears that those options have been exhausted.
>>>
>>> Since on the surface the issue that needs additional clarity and was not
>>> able to be resolved by staff to satisfaction managing to currently written
>>> policy as a guideline then as the Secretary I would recommend to all
>>> members as I always do, 1) in advance (preferred 10 days) add new business
>>> item to the board wiki agenda https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Board 2)
>>> Have a representative attend the board meeting 3) the OpenSAMM project
>>> leader(a) to speak (when new business is called for a block of time) to
>>> this item on the upcoming monthly global board agenda resulting in a motion
>>> and a vote of its elected leaders to resolve it (that is the appeal)
>>>
>>> Since we operate in a decentralized community meeting monthly for the
>>> purpose of official OWASP business the member shall simply edit and add as
>>> new business a item to be raised otherwise it will never be officially
>>> reviewed and voted on by the elected leadership to be resolved by a
>>> majority vote.  There is no ivory tower that is how and the purpose of a
>>> elected board of directors when operational issues need additional focus
>>> effecting members.
>>>
>>> This democratic process using Roberts rules is super important to
>>> understand especially as we move to a election cycle that starts on October
>>> 9th people have to VOTE with what they want OWASP to be in the future
>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/2017_Global_Board_of_Directors_Election it
>>> is also a great opportunity for incoming board candidates to be part of the
>>> discussion.
>>>
>>> Tom Brennan
>>> 973-202-0122 <(973)%20202-0122>
>>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Brian Glas <brian.glas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tom,
>>> This isn't related to the summit or a traditional reimbursement.
>>>
>>> The original request was related to a withdrawal of funds from our
>>> budget that we very much disagreed with.
>>>
>>> "*We cannot agree to line 65* "Recouping funds from projects that are
>>> either inactive, or did not submit a budget for 2017"
>>>
>>> 1) OWASP SAMM is one of the most active flagship projects for the last
>>> couple of years, we even had a project summit during the last 3 years
>>> (hence the income)
>>> 2) None of the SAMM project leaders did get a request to submit a budget
>>> for 2017. If we would have received that we should surely have provided one.
>>>
>>> *Please refund the 3677.22 USD to the OWASP SAMM project ?*
>>> We need this to cover our project team summit expenses in November."
>>>
>>> I'm not clear on what the dispute process is for something like this, so
>>> if you can point us to that, it would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 7:39 AM, Tom Brennan <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If the project team had the funding and they submit a reimbursement
>>>> Andrew should not be in the middle when managing to the existing
>>>> reimbursement policy in the current project handbook. He’s not operational
>>>> and appointed to the treasurer role to keep the global budget in check not
>>>> individual transactions.
>>>>
>>>> Oct 11 this can be noted as old business re Summit to get it resolved
>>>> if needed Seba. Please have a representative join the public meeting to
>>>> speak to it https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Board
>>>>
>>>> Tom Brennan
>>>> 973-202-0122 <(973)%20202-0122>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 2:18 AM, Seba <seba at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>> As I am not getting a response from Andrew: I am escalating this to the
>>>> board.
>>>>
>>>> *We cannot agree to line 65* "Recouping funds from projects that are
>>>> either inactive, or did not submit a budget for 2017"
>>>>
>>>> 1) OWASP SAMM is one of the most active flagship projects for the last
>>>> couple of years, we even had a project summit during the last 3 years
>>>> (hence the income)
>>>> 2) None of the SAMM project leaders did get a request to submit a
>>>> budget for 2017. If we would have received that we should surely have
>>>> provided one.
>>>>
>>>> *Please refund the 3677.22 USD to the OWASP SAMM project?*
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>> Seba
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: Seba <seba at owasp.org>
>>>> Date: Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 6:34 PM
>>>> Subject: Fwd: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>> To: Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org>, Matt Tesauro <
>>>> matt.tesauro at owasp.org>, Tom Pappas <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>
>>>> Cc: Bart De Win <bart.dewin at owasp.org>, Brian Glas <
>>>> brian.glas at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> hi Andrew
>>>>
>>>> nudge, nudge ?? :-)
>>>>
>>>> Can you confirm you get this email?
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>>
>>>> Seba
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: Seba <seba at owasp.org>
>>>> Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 9:40 AM
>>>> Subject: Fwd: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>> To: Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org>, Matt Tesauro <
>>>> matt.tesauro at owasp.org>, Tom Pappas <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>
>>>> Cc: Bart De Win <bart.dewin at owasp.org>, Brian Glas <
>>>> brian.glas at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrew,
>>>>
>>>> Can you confirm the refund of 3677.22 USD to the OWASP SAMM project ?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Seba
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: Seba <seba at owasp.org>
>>>> Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 9:25 PM
>>>> Subject: Fwd: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>> To: Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org>, Matt Tesauro <
>>>> matt.tesauro at owasp.org>, Tom Pappas <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>
>>>> Cc: Brian Glas <brian.glas at gmail.com>, Bart De Win <
>>>> bart.dewin at owasp.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gents,
>>>>
>>>> *We cannot agree to line 65* "Recouping funds from projects that are
>>>> either inactive, or did not submit a budget for 2017"
>>>>
>>>> 1) OWASP SAMM is one of the most active flagship projects for the last
>>>> couple of years, we even had a project summit during the last 3 years
>>>> (hence the income)
>>>> 2) None of the SAMM project leaders did get a request to submit a
>>>> budget for 2017. If we would have received that we should surely have
>>>> provided one.
>>>>
>>>> *Please refund the 3677.22 USD to the OWASP SAMM project ?*
>>>> We need this to cover our project team summit expenses in November.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>> Seba
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: Tom Pappas <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>
>>>> Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 1:14 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>> To: Seba <seba at owasp.org>, Andrew van der Stock (vanderaj at owasp.org) <
>>>> vanderaj at owasp.org>
>>>> Cc: Matt Tesauro (matt.tesauro at owasp.org) <matt.tesauro at owasp.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello Seba,  here you go there are two tabs as Open SAMM has both a US
>>>> and EU balance.  These are from the beginning of the proj through 7.31.17
>>>> which is the last month we have closed.  Take care
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thomas S. Pappas, MSA |   Senior Vice President of Finance &
>>>> Administration | Virtual, Inc.
>>>>
>>>> D: +1-781-876-8914 <(781)%20876-8914>
>>>>
>>>> F:  +1-781-623-8460 <(781)%20623-8460>
>>>>
>>>> *tpappas at virtualmgmt.com <tpappas at virtualmgmt.com>*
>>>>
>>>> 401 Edgewater Place, Suite 600, Wakefield, MA 01880
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+Edgewater+Place,+Suite+600,+Wakefield,+MA+01880&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Seba [mailto:seba at owasp.org]
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 10, 2017 5:46 AM
>>>> *To:* Alison Shrader <accounting at owasp.org>
>>>> *Subject:* [owasp accounting] SAMM project funds status
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can you provide a detailed overview of income/expenses for the SAMM
>>>> project for the last year?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seba
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to accounting+unsubscribe at owasp.org.
>>>>
>>>> <OpenSamm US and EU Balance as of 7.31.17.xlsx>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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