[Owasp-board] Vote by email: Establishing OWASP Regional Security Councils

Tobias tobias.gondrom at owasp.org
Wed Jan 13 15:19:18 UTC 2016

Hi all,

Josh, thank you very much for explaining the basic operation of the 
board to Tom.
Frankly I was a little surprised about his approach. As he was already a 
board member before and has been part of the mailing-lists over a long 
time, I thought the procedure would have been clear. But maybe we need 
to provide better documentation. Hopefully your explanation could 
already help with that. If more information is needed, we could offer 
some additional explaining in an individual call outside the regular 
meeting to explain the basic procedure again if that helps.

One more comment: topics that shall lead to a vote or board discussion 
should be at least cc'ed to the board list. That is the purpose of that 

Best regards, Tobias

Ps.: btw. if volunteers from the regions like to create regional boards, 
this can be done already today without a vote. There is the committee 
2.0 procedure that allows for that. No board vote required. All it takes 
is the volunteers who want to do the work and spend the time for it. :-)

On 07/01/16 11:15, Josh Sokol wrote:
> Tom,
> Proper protocol would require a second of your motion, followed by a 
> discussion, followed by a vote.  I have similar concerns as Andrew and 
> can't say that I'm convinced that this is warranted.  I would like to 
> have more time to digest what this is actually intended to accomplish, 
> and perhaps socializing it with the community to see if they have 
> interest, before voting for it.
> ~josh
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 9:07 PM, Tom Brennan <tomb at proactiverisk.com 
> <mailto:tomb at proactiverisk.com>> wrote:
>     Is your vote No or abstain?
>     On Wednesday, January 6, 2016, Andrew van der Stock
>     <vanderaj at owasp.org <mailto:vanderaj at owasp.org>> wrote:
>         Tom,
>         Beyond the strategic focus of projects, there's not a lot of
>         governance in this at all; we don't want to create
>         mini-boards, nor more rudderless committees that have failed
>         in the past.
>         I'd like to see:
>         What they are responsible for, specifically? If they are just
>         projects and not community or outreach, let's make that clear.
>         I think given that many projects are worldwide, delegating
>         down to regional levels is not really going to work. ASVS has
>         leadership in the Australia (Asia Pac), UK (Europe), and US
>         (North America). Many projects would struggle with this
>         alignment.
>         Secondly, you miss a critical regional OWASP super power -
>         India. India is almost always squished into EMEA or Asia Pac
>         by western firms, but it's not really a part of either
>         grouping, and it's so big it pretty much deserves to be on its
>         own. I would like to hear from Indian chapter and project
>         leaders to see how we can make this work for them, if they
>         would prefer to be part of EMEA or AsiaPac, or their own thing.
>         If are delegating our responsibility over projects, who do
>         they report to? In my view, it must be Claudia, who reports to
>         Paul who reports to us. If they report to us, that bypasses
>         the Foundation staff's role of doing stuff and is a vote of no
>         confidence in our staff. I would like it very much if it was
>         made clear as how the lines of reporting work, and to make
>         sure Claudia can manage and delegate work off to the regional
>         committees so that they work on strategically aligned things
>         rather than any old random thing.
>           * What they are doing is measurable? How do we measure success?
>           * What they are doing is actionable? What specific steps are
>             required for success?
>           * What they are doing is realistic? Volunteer time is
>             incredibly valuable, and they tend to work on things that
>             appeal to them. Is it realistic to expect folks to work on
>             things that they may not enjoy doing as a precursor to
>             global board eligibility?
>           * What they are doing is either time boxed or at least not
>             open ended. This is the mistake we had last time, it was
>             BAU make work that failed because no one wants to do BAU
>             make work.
>           * What sort of funding envelope will they have at their
>             disposal? If it's the CEF and Projects budget, how does
>             that impact project autonomy?
>         I'm keen to try out anything that really helps at a regional
>         level, but it can't just be the creation of more committees
>         who don't know what they are doing other than "do first, ask
>         for forgiveness later". That's how all of our previous
>         committees failed. Let's not make the mistakes of the past.
>         Let's make it better with a bit more detail around the edges
>         so they can succeed.
>         thanks,
>         Andrew
>         On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 10:38 AM, Bev Corwin
>         <bev.corwin at owasp.org> wrote:
>             Yes
>             On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Tom Brennan - OWASP
>             <tomb at owasp.org> wrote:
>                 *Board Members:*
>                 *
>                 *
>                 A vote by email has been requested per *section 3.09
>                 *Foundation Bylaws
>                 https://www.owasp.org/images/e/e1/OWASPByLawsOfficial-25Sept2015CLEAN.pdf
>                 *Motion:*
>                 Approve the establishment of Regional Representation
>                 of OWASP Foundation to focus on the core projects and
>                 efforts of the foundation to be known as:
>                 *-- Asia-Pacific Security Council (APSC)
>                 -- North America Security Council (NASC)
>                 -- Europe Middle East and Africa Security Council (ESC)
>                 -- Latin America Security Council (LASC) *
>                 VOTES (please reply-all with your vote)
>                 Tom - Motion / Yes
>                 Jim -
>                 Tobias -
>                 Matt -
>                 Anthony -
>                 Michael -
>                 Josh -
>                 *On Background:*
>                 *_OWASP is built on self-organized efforts bottom
>                 up._*  Regional and cultures are different around the
>                 world... never mind time zones. OWASP needs to
>                 reenergize regional coordination of projects
>                 activities, events, summits, etc. The motion is
>                 requesting a formal approval process to establish
>                 regional advisory councils/committees as the first
>                 order of business for our community volunteers in
>                 2016. Each committee should be 8-12 people. Since we
>                 have "45,000" people in the community should not be to
>                 hard to pick +/- 40 from the membership of 2508 as of
>                 today.
>                 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-yoQ0XTBPfmZEvVSvXey0w3nGZXG2Ctbn3o_mXL7dAU/edit
>                 <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-yoQ0XTBPfmZEvVSvXey0w3nGZXG2Ctbn3o_mXL7dAU/edit>
>                 Once approved OWASP has highlighted and empowered more
>                 volunteers to self-organize and participate on core
>                 aspects of OWASP Foundation and recognition of their
>                 time investment, locally and raises visibility
>                 globally in key regions.
>                 *FAQ1*
>                 *How do we then fill the Councils with members?*
>                 *
>                 *
>                 *Step #2 is simple*, the board will ask for self
>                 nominations, solicit and appoint interested parties
>                 vetted with assistance of community members and staff
>                 associated with industry users and/or leaders of
>                 projects to be appointed for a (1) year term to these
>                 advisory boards. *This creates quick and swift action
>                 and energy around the world aligned to the mission of
>                 the charity and the strategic goals of 2016.*
>                 *FAQ2*
>                 *But isn't that why Committee 2.0 was created?*
>                 Yes, but it needs help to get off the ground and
>                 implementation. So to jump start it, you must start
>                 off with one year appointment of task forces then we
>                 can follow Committee 2.0
>                 https://owasp.org/index.php/Governance/OWASP_Committees and
>                 adjust as needed.  This fantastic guidance document
>                 has had unfortunately no action taken by the community
>                 so we need to *JUMP START IT *and the community will
>                 evolve bottom up.
>                 *
>                 *
>                 *FAQ3*
>                 *How do we know what they are working on?*
>                 Not a big fan of micro management.. but I agree that
>                 if it is worth doing, funding then metrics should be
>                 measured. Requesting a summary roll-up report from
>                 each committee chairman simply outlining PLANS for
>                 next three months, PROGRESS from last three months and
>                 PROBLEMS that they may need the board to noodle on and
>                 help with. This should be supplied starting with Q2
>                 board meeting to update on any efforts that they have
>                 self organized and to demonstrate the cascading
>                 communication
>                 (https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Strategic_Goals) of
>                 strategic goals globally
>                 In edition to encouraging virtual meetings, the groups
>                 will self regulate and will likely rally at min.,  2x
>                 per year. 1x locally at regional project summary  and
>                 1x at global project summit off-site.  This will self
>                 level.
>                 *FAQ4*
>                 *What are the roles of the OWASP staff in these groups?*
>                 The councils are self-organized by the regional
>                 members. Employees aka: OWASP Foundation Operations
>                 provide support to EVERYONE so if a council needs
>                 something they can request it just like everyone does
>                 everyday example: https://www.tfaforms.com/308703 and
>                 the requests will be responded to or escalated as
>                 needed.  We are establishing working committees and
>                 leaders in regional groups, this is going back to
>                 basics and helping to drive regional coordination and
>                 advisory status.
>                 *FAQ5*
>                 *Who do you think should be appointed Tom?*
>                 IMHO Tip of my tongue are the candidates from
>                 2015/2014 elections in their regions of the world have
>                 already stated the "why me" lets not lose that energy
>                 rather encourage it!
>                 Abbas Naderi Afooshteh
>                 Jonathan Carter
>                 Bill Corry
>                 Nigel Phair
>                 Milton Smith
>                 Timur Khrotko
>                 Tahir Khan
>                 <insert others that are regionally recognized by their
>                 peers have expressed they want to help the OWASP Mission>
>                 *FAQ6*
>                 *We need a taskforce or a committee for X this will
>                 mess that up...*
>                 When a defined need is established for a short or long
>                 term taskforce, project, committee etc...etc.. the
>                 first thing we do is ask each of these councils to
>                 represent their region of the world and take a active
>                 part in the discussion.  If that does not fit then it
>                 does not limit a additional *"get things done
>                 committee"* to work on and as we know is true it will
>                 be a collection of people that have time to volunteer
>                 and that is OPEN to everyone.
>                 *FAQ7*
>                 If we do this will it upset the annual election process?
>                 *It will enhance it actually..... *This model provides
>                 a pool of 40+ vetted people in the community that if
>                 they want to serve on a regional board and then run
>                 for a global board they have a proven track record of
>                 getting things done.
>                 *FAQ8*
>                 If more discussion is needed happy to discuss on the
>                 NEXT board meeting OR if you prefer to discuss it more
>                 just call me to understand the spirit of the end goal.
>                 Skype: proactiverisk
>                 Phone: 973-506-9304 <tel:973-506-9304>
>                 Tom Brennan
>                 Global Board Member
>                 OWASP Foundation
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>     -- 
>     Tom Brennan
>     ProactiveRISK | www.proactiverisk.com <http://www.proactiverisk.com>
>     973-506-9304 <tel:973-506-9304>
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