[Owasp-board] Motion to approve Proposal 6

Michael Coates michael.coates at owasp.org
Mon Oct 19 15:54:03 UTC 2015


Yes from me

> Josh: Yes
> Jim: Yes
> Tobias: Yes
> Michael: yes
> Matt:
> Andrew: No
> Fabio:


> On Oct 18, 2015, at 5:13 PM, Andrew van der Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org> wrote:
> 
> Josh: Yes
> Jim: Yes
> Tobias: Yes
> Michael: 
> Matt:
> Andrew: No
> Fabio:
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org> wrote:
>> Josh: Yes
>> Jim: Yes
>> Tobias: Yes
>> Michael: 
>> Matt:
>> Andrew: 
>> Fabio:
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2015 5:24 PM, "Tobias" <tobias.gondrom at owasp.org> wrote:
>>> Update: 
>>> As operational effectiveness was my main worry and Paul just sent an email stating that he does not see any problems from our team on this item, I hereby change my vote to "Yes." (in support of the posted text). 
>>> 
>>> Best regards, Tobias
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 17/10/15 00:13, Tobias wrote:
>>>> Josh, 
>>>> 
>>>> I am surprised that you see a problem of waiting for 3 days to give people the chance to raise their points. 
>>>> I recognise that you are not friendly to the amendment, therefore we shall resolve your motion first. 
>>>> 
>>>> I hereby vote "No". 
>>>> (As I said I am friendly to the principle, but I think that my alternate proposal text is more useful. And I am sorry that you feel it would be splitting hairs and harmful. Therefore, I vote "No" now and hope we can use the other proposal text for a motion after this vote.)
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards, Tobias
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ps.: after this vote is closed we can then talk about my proposal as a new item: 
>>>> If a request for funding has been approved for one chapter or project, then it can be considered an acceptable expense for all chapters or projects. Our operations team will, based on the         list of filed approved expenses, update the list of recommended expenses at least once every three months with new classes of expenses as they arise. If a chapter or project has an account balance which covers that expense in full, then items identical to the ones on the pre-approved list should be considered pre-approved for spending. 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 16/10/15 23:30, Josh Sokol wrote:
>>>>> Tobias,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The full proposal has been under discussion since I originally sent it on 9/24.  While officially motioned and seconded at the OWASP Board Meeting on 9/25, you pulled "Parliamentary Procedure" to table it for further discussion.  Jim resurrected that discussion immediately after and while much of that fell into a blackhole due to the mailing list issues, I took the feedback for this specific initiative and copied it into a separate discussion thread here on 10/9.  So, for you to tell me that we require three additional days, when we have already had just short of a month worth of discussion already, I'm not sure I understand.  If we were making progress, then that would               be one thing, but as you stated in the meeting, you very clearly feel like this proposal is extra effort (I do not) and that we should continue to utilize the same broken process that we have in the past.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> In all fairness here, I made the motion on 10/13 (3 days ago) and it was seconded by Jim on 10/13 (3 days ago).  I stated that unless there was anything new to add, then I voted "Yes".  Jim voted "Yes" as well.  You responded with "I can not see a point in voting now via email, if the next board meeting is within a day. This is a waste of time."  It was not discussed at the Board meeting so my motion shall resume.  There has been almost a month worth of time for comments on this.  Unless you have an alternative wording to propose instead, then the discussion has been had and we need to vote.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> ~josh
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Tobias <tobias.gondrom at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Josh, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> we see eye to eye. We may not be of the same opinion. ;-) 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But frankly at this moment, this is not my problem. 
>>>>>> I simply noted that during the meeting we did run out of discussion time and there was the proposal to table this item for raising questions or discussion instead of voting on it. That was accepted with no objection. Therefore, like to understand whether there is further need for discussion before I call for a vote. I think your email calling for a vote is noted and we should give people a chance to raise their questions or discuss before we initiate the vote. As during the board meeting a timeline of 3 days was mentioned. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Therefore I note your request to re-open the motion. I appreciate that it has been seconded. 
>>>>>> By who to remember me for the record? 
>>>>>> I suggest to give us three days to raise questions or discuss unless all members are good to vote immediately. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best regards, Tobias
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 16/10/15 22:55, Josh Sokol wrote:
>>>>>>> Tobias,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is clear that we do not see eye-to-eye on how this process should work.  This discussion has already consumed much of two Board meetings already, has been had offline as well, and it's time to move forward.  No additional discussion is going to convince me otherwise at this point, and it appears likewise, so in light of this we follow our process.  I would merely remind you that Paul has already voiced that he believes there are sufficient controls in place that this would not be an issue.  The motion has been made and seconded.  Two votes have been cast in favor.  Please provide yours.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ~josh
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Tobias <tobias.gondrom at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Josh, 
>>>>>>>> we did not table this item during the meeting for the purpose to go directly to voting. Otherwise we could have done so immediately. My understanding was that more discussion was needed on this at our next meeting in 3 weeks. 
>>>>>>>> Best regards, Tobias
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 16/10/15 21:50, Josh Sokol wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Since this item was tabled and not voted on at the Board meeting, since there does not seem to be a unanimous consensus on how this proposal should work, and since the motion has already been made and seconded (with two votes in favor), I would ask that all Board members record their votes in this e-mail thread.  Thank you.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ~josh
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Tobias <tobias.gondrom at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I can not see a point in voting now via email, if the next board meeting is within a day. 
>>>>>>>>>> This is a waste of time. 
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Tobias
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Ps.: Even though I agree with the overall idea, I feel like several concerns on this have been ignored resulting in a bad proposal. I will likely need to vote no and motion for an alternative text. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/15 03:30, Jim Manico wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I vote yes.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Join me in Rome for AppSecEU 2016!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 3:06 AM, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe that we've already had the discussion.  Unless there is anything new that someone would like to add, I would like to request a vote.  I will vote "Yes".
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> ~josh
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 7:39 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I second this motion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Join me in Rome for AppSecEU 2016!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 2:36 AM, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to motion that we approve Proposal 6 of the funding proposal presented at the last Board meeting:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If a request for funding has been approved for one chapter or project, then it can be considered an acceptable expense for                                                           all chapters or projects.  If they have an account balance which covers that expense in full, then they should be considered pre-approved for spending.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>> 
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