[Owasp-board] Motion to approve proposal 2

Tobias tobias.gondrom at owasp.org
Wed Oct 14 20:29:53 UTC 2015


Hi Fabio, Paul and team,

my understanding on this is as with all normal budget responsibility. 
I.e. if you spend more than you have in your budget and have no 
additional approval, the person spending that money is personally liable 
for doing so. Unless the foundation will after the fact approve the 
expenditure. That will not change with this new proposal.
So if you have USD500 allocated to a project and e.g. the project lead 
spends USD600 on something anyway, the project  lead can reimburse 500 
and needs to cover the remainder himself.

Best regards, Tobias


On 14/10/15 17:48, Paul Ritchie wrote:
> Hello Fabio, All:
>
> Under this specific scenario, again...no, I think that is a problem 
> for the foundation.  How would the Foundation handle this uncertainty 
> times many chapters & many events?
>
> Sometimes it might be the $200 and sometimes it could be $500 overage.
>
> Today, we handle this surprises on an individual basis. But to put a 
> 'Policy' in place that guarantees Foundation payment on any surprise 
> or unauthorized overspending.....is no incentive for a Leader to stick 
> to the spending limit.  right?
>
> How about modifying Proposal #2 text to aim the Leaders at seeking 
> pre-approval, using normal process for any anticipated overspending.
>
> Proposal 2: There should be no such thing as negative account balances 
> for chapters or projects going forward.  If the intent is to spend 
> more money than is currently in the account, the money should be taken 
> and approved from Foundation funding sources, subject to Foundation 
> pre-approvalfollowing current Community Engagement and Project Funding 
> guidelines.
>
> Best Regards, Paul Ritchie
> OWASP Executive Director
> paul.ritchie at owasp.org <mailto:paul.ritchie at owasp.org>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:22 AM, Fabio Cerullo <fcerullo at owasp.org 
> <mailto:fcerullo at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>     Paul
>
>     I believe a typical example of this is the following:
>
>     Chapter X wants to organise an event and they budget USD500 for
>     food/drinks. They have those funds in their account so the event
>     is approved.
>
>     Then due to ‘increased attendance’ the food/drinks expenses go
>     over the USD500 and now the bill comes at USD700.
>
>     The current process dictates that those extra USD200 shall be
>     accounted by the chapter.
>
>     The new proposal is saying.. OWASP Foundation will cover that
>     difference.
>
>     Are we OK with this?
>
>     Fabio Cerullo
>     Global Board Member
>     OWASP Foundation
>     https://www.owasp.org
>
>>     On 14 Oct 2015, at 12:58 a.m., Paul Ritchie
>>     <paul.ritchie at owasp.org <mailto:paul.ritchie at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hello Fabio, All:
>>
>>     _Re:  Will the Foundation cover unauthorized spending by a
>>     Chapter or Project?_
>>
>>     I think this is clear.   A Chapter or Project is only authorized
>>     to spend what is in their Budget, or what has been pre-approved
>>     in excess of that budget from Foundation funds.
>>     Any unauthorized overspending will not be covered by the Foundation.
>>
>>     Its a 'scale' issue.  It would be totally unmanageable and
>>     fiscally irresponsible if OWASP just paid for overspending by 50,
>>     or 100 or more Chapter/Project "oops" problems over the course of
>>     a year....especially on a global scale.
>>     Of course, each will be looked at separately to determine cause
>>     and whether it was over by $10 or $1,000.
>>
>>     We provide them responsibility with full transparency on current
>>     Balance or 'Available' budget and full listing of recent
>>     transactions on a monthly basis.
>>     We provide them responsibility by adding funding up to $500 under
>>     one of our new proposals at the start of the year.
>>     We provide them responsibility with a clear pre-approval process
>>     posted on the Wiki for access to Foundation funds.
>>     (Note:  current process allows $500 requests up to 4x per year
>>     per Project or Chapter, for a total of $2,000 from Foundation
>>     pre-approvals from our Community Engagement Fund)
>>
>>     And, by end of year we will have communicated ***many*** times
>>     about the process, the location for information, and the policy
>>     guidelines.
>>
>>     So, I think this is a very liberal program and very exciting for
>>     our Project & Chapter leaders.  Now we need to trust them to do
>>     their part and manage this responsibly with a minimum of 'surprises'.
>>
>>     My 2 cents and anticipated implementation.
>>
>>     Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Best Regards, Paul Ritchie
>>     OWASP Executive Director
>>     paul.ritchie at owasp.org <mailto:paul.ritchie at owasp.org>
>>
>>
>>     On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Fabio Cerullo
>>     <fcerullo at owasp.org <mailto:fcerullo at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         Thanks Paul & Noreen for the insight.
>>
>>         Looking at Noreen's example, say if a chapter with USD500 in
>>         their account spends USD700 (USD500 chapter funds + USD200
>>         community engagement).
>>
>>         Those USD200 might not have been pre-approved by the
>>         Foundation and could be the special 'out of budget' requests
>>         that Paul is mentioning below.
>>
>>         What will happen in that case? I'm trying to avoid a
>>         situation where the Foundation will be forced to pick up the
>>         bills for any unplanned expenses. At present that cannot
>>         happen and chapters/projects are responsible not to go in the
>>         red.
>>
>>         Fabio
>>
>>         Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>         On 13 Oct 2015, at 8:18 p.m., Noreen Whysel
>>         <noreen.whysel at owasp.org <mailto:noreen.whysel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>>         My experience with negative balances (Bolivia and Belfast so
>>>         far) is that they often go negative when a charge is covered
>>>         by Community Engagement funds. I believe that Alison records
>>>         this in her processes, but it is not necessarily shown in
>>>         the public documents: US/EU Chapter Funds PDF and US/EU
>>>         Project Funds PDF. These documents show the expenses but
>>>         don't show the Community Engagement credit.
>>>
>>>         Noreen Whysel
>>>         Community Manager
>>>         OWASP Foundation
>>>
>>>         On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Paul Ritchie
>>>         <paul.ritchie at owasp.org <mailto:paul.ritchie at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Hi Fabio, All:
>>>
>>>             Trying to keep all the email threads straight, and I
>>>             believe this question on proposal #2 is still open.
>>>             (Although I believe we have 5 Yes votes already)
>>>
>>>             _Are there any complications on proposal #2, from
>>>             accounting perspective?_
>>>
>>>             To remove the negative balances is not a big challenge. 
>>>             The accounting folks have already identified the method
>>>             of credits and debits required to balance the books. 
>>>             Since the actual payments have already been made in the
>>>             past, there is no change to our actual cash balances. 
>>>             It is an internal set of bookkeeping entries that offset
>>>             each other.  As of October 2, there was about $800 of
>>>             negative balance on the Chapter list and about $500 on
>>>             the Project side. Since the Foundation "already paid"
>>>             these bills on behalf of the project/chapter....this is
>>>             like a debt owed back to the Foundation. By making the
>>>             balance zero, we are essentially 'writing off' that
>>>             'over-spend' by the project/chapter.
>>>
>>>             _The Caution:_   As long as this proposal retains the
>>>             "subject to Foundation approval' for "out of budget
>>>             requests" clause I am OK
>>>             >>  Normal approval process remains in effect if a
>>>             project or chapter asks for more money than in their budget.
>>>             >>  Special 'out of budget' requests would be approved
>>>             if they met guidelines AND we had excess money in the
>>>             Community engagement Buckets.
>>>             >>  Special 'out of budget' requests would NOT be
>>>             approved if they DID NOT meet guidelines......or the
>>>             Community & Project Budgets were low or empty.
>>>
>>>             Best Regards, Paul Ritchie
>>>             OWASP Executive Director
>>>             paul.ritchie at owasp.org <mailto:paul.ritchie at owasp.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>             On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Fabio Cerullo
>>>             <fcerullo at owasp.org <mailto:fcerullo at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Paul,
>>>
>>>                 Are there any complications regarding this proposal
>>>                 from an accounting perspective?
>>>
>>>                 Thanks,
>>>
>>>                 Fabio Cerullo
>>>                 Global Board Member
>>>                 OWASP Foundation
>>>                 https://www.owasp.org <https://www.owasp.org/>
>>>
>>>>                 On 13 Oct 2015, at 2:55 a.m., Matt Konda
>>>>                 <matt.konda at owasp.org
>>>>                 <mailto:matt.konda at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 For #2 I vote yes.
>>>>
>>>>                 I assume that Michael does since he seconded it
>>>>                 above.  We also have Jim, Josh and Andrew's votes.
>>>>
>>>>                 Missing Tobias and Fabio.  Input?
>>>>
>>>>                 Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 7:01 AM, Andrew van der
>>>>                 Stock <vanderaj at owasp.org
>>>>                 <mailto:vanderaj at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                     I like this one. I will vote for it.
>>>>
>>>>                     Andrew
>>>>
>>>>                     On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Jim Manico
>>>>                     <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>>>                     <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                         Thanks Josh. So I second all funding
>>>>                         proposals on the table that need seconding.
>>>>                         Will wait for discussion to vote.
>>>>                         --
>>>>                         Jim Manico
>>>>                         Global Board Member
>>>>                         OWASP Foundation
>>>>                         https://www.owasp.org <https://www.owasp.org/>
>>>>                         Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>                         <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>
>>>>                         On Oct 9, 2015, at 4:24 AM, Josh Sokol
>>>>                         <josh.sokol at owasp.org
>>>>                         <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>                         To follow the process...discussion first,
>>>>>                         then votes.
>>>>>
>>>>>                         ~josh
>>>>>
>>>>>                         On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:23 PM, Jim Manico
>>>>>                         <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>>>>                         <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                             I vote yes for all current funding
>>>>>                             proposals on the table.
>>>>>
>>>>>                             --
>>>>>                             Jim Manico
>>>>>                             Global Board Member
>>>>>                             OWASP Foundation
>>>>>                             https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>                             <https://www.owasp.org/>
>>>>>                             Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>>                             <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>
>>>>>                             On Oct 9, 2015, at 12:25 AM, Michael
>>>>>                             Coates <michael.coates at owasp.org
>>>>>                             <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>                             Second.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             (I'd be fine to vote for the entire
>>>>>>                             series of proposals too, but happy to
>>>>>>                             move along this one)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             --
>>>>>>                             Michael Coates | @_mwc
>>>>>>                             <https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=_mwc>
>>>>>>                             OWASP Global Board
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Josh
>>>>>>                             Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org
>>>>>>                             <mailto:josh.sokol at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 I would like to motion that we
>>>>>>                                 approve proposal 2 of the funding
>>>>>>                                 initiative discussed at the last
>>>>>>                                 Board meeting.  The exact wording
>>>>>>                                 is as follows:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 *There should be no such thing as
>>>>>>                                 negative account balances for
>>>>>>                                 chapters or projects going
>>>>>>                                 forward.  If the intent is to
>>>>>>                                 spend more money than is
>>>>>>                                 currently in the account, the
>>>>>>                                 money should be taken and
>>>>>>                                 approved from Foundation funding
>>>>>>                                 sources, subject to Foundation
>>>>>>                                 approval. *
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 Do I hear a second?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 ~josh
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                                 Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>                                 Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>                                 <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>>>                                 https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                             Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>                             Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>                             <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>>>                             https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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