[Owasp-board] Update - CFT Issue re:PCI training via OWASP

Jim Manico jim.manico at owasp.org
Fri May 8 01:08:41 UTC 2015

Well said Matt.

And Paul, unless the board votes on something, this is just discussion. I
look forward to further discussion in Amsterdam.

Jim Manico
(808) 652-3805

On May 7, 2015, at 2:39 PM, Matt Konda <matt.konda at owasp.org> wrote:

I think we may need to have a meeting to handle this question properly.

I need more context to understand how we got to the position we're in and
what our viable options are going forward.  I think everyone is making good
points but I'm having trouble coming to any cohesive conclusions.

Can we agree not to do anything more than passive information collection
(gathering submitted RFPs say) on the current item and to put a review of
this specific instance of training on the agenda for Paul's next 1 on 1
call?  We might need to extend the time for that call so that we don't
monopolize it completely.

I would further suggest that we make training strategy a major topic for
the board meeting at AppSecEU and work to have some sort of concrete
direction to vote on leading up to the meeting.

I see lots of potential opportunities and pitfalls ...


On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Paul Ritchie <paul.ritchie at owasp.org> wrote:

> Hi...I've worked with many organizations and I'm enjoying how passionate
> and engaged people are about OWASP.
> I see a missing link here in several of our recent email threads about
> Training, or Summer of Code, or Project Summit to name a few.
> How do we provide community oversight and consensus for various programs,
> specifically training?
> As an open community we strive to inform everyone about 'whats going on'
> and why.  And then many have strong opinions about "I love it, or I hate
> it" or "Go, or Stop".  My mandate is to use our people and resources to
> achieve the Goals & objectives of OWASP.  I cannot change direction because
> 1 or 2 or 4 people proclaim what "should be done" on an email thread.  I
> respect & listen to those opinions, and I may include that sage advice in
> our action plans, but I think we all know my objectives come from the
> Board, not from individuals.
> We need to move the healthy debate into a structured proposal for, or
> against something.  That proposal process from the community, coupled with
> the decision process by OWASP leadership is an effective way to reach
> community consensus on programs & policies (i.e. recent funding approvals
> for SoC and Project Summit).
> So....perhaps the community could use the Committee 2.0 process to set up
> a 'Training Steering Committee' much like the Project Review Committee to
> help us stay true to our core values.
> I really think this will help ensure Community knowledge, history and
> expertise are included as we evaluate various training programs going
> forward.  We have big goals this year, and our Operations staff could
> certainly benefit from your help & experience.
> I'll be in Amsterdam later this month and eager to brainstorm some of
> these ideas with others who are attending.
> Paul
> Best Regards, Paul Ritchie
> OWASP Executive Director
> paul.ritchie at owasp.org
> On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>> Paul,
>> I would like to shut this down because it makes us a security vendor. We
>> do not want to be that. We want to be an open source company where all of
>> our materials and projects are free. To support our strategic goal I
>> suggest we build free training materials for all to use.
>> ••• I admit I am biased because I am a professional trainer and will
>> excuse myself from any vote on this or other training issues.
>> Regards,
>> --
>> Jim Manico
>> @Manicode
>> (808) 652-3805
>> On May 7, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Paul Ritchie <paul.ritchie at owasp.org> wrote:
>> To OWASP Board Group List:
>> I'm pleased to see a healthy discussion and strong viewpoints about
>> Training since this is one of our continuing Strategic Goals for 2015.  Let
>> me provide some 'first hand' information about this CFT.
>> Specifically, this opportunity came from a company who 'knows about
>> OWASP' and knows and respects our 'quality & style' of training.
>> They wanted some PCI training for their developers and their "end user
>> service reps" and they wanted OWASP to provide the training, not one of the
>> other commercial entities.
>> As we evaluating this, we determined it met several of our key goals and
>> objectives, so we decided to run it as a pilot or trial to see how it
>> worked out for the Community and OWASP.  Does it meet our Core valules?   Open?
>> - check, Innovative? - check, Global? - check, Done w/Integrity? - check.
>> 1.  It meets the Training goal, and more specifically it provides
>> training to ~125 Developers as well as ~1,000 customer service reps.
>> 2.  To keep opportunities 'open' we decided to make a broad Call For
>> Trainer, like we do at our AppSec Conferences.
>> 3.  To ensure the content was not exclusive, we required the open webinar
>> training to be produced
>> 4.  We are not providing any sort of "certification" for the training -
>> it is knowledge sharing only.
>> 5.  We have 3 submissions already under the CFT, and more than half a
>> dozen community members who volunteered to be on the content review team.
>> 6.  Background -- There has been discussion for many years about
>> leveraging a paid training program that was modeled after the successful
>> conference style training, as a possible revenue stream for the
>> Foundation.  Many leaders have supported this in the past.  The conference
>> style model was attempted in a couple of different places ( Denver and NY)
>> with mixed results.  This is a sort of hybrid - on a small scale - to see
>> how it works.
>> Again, I'm encouraged by all the healthy discussion on Training, and I
>> acknowledge the strong opinions on this topic.  In summary, this
>> opportunity popped up, we were able to structure it to meet our goals,
>> objectives & policies, so we are investing time & resource to 'test' this
>> new and innovative approach.
>> You are welcome to reach out to me or Kate with questions.  Kate is
>> closest to this program and she can connect you with other leaders working
>> on this as needed.
>> Best Regards, Paul Ritchie
>> OWASP Executive Director
>> paul.ritchie at owasp.org
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