[Owasp-board] [Owasp-leaders] Fwd: Project Summit countdown

johanna curiel curiel johanna.curiel at owasp.org
Mon Feb 9 17:13:19 UTC 2015

Hi Josh

I think indeed that I need to create a break down for the actual projects
leaders that have reacted and a projection for the expected ones by tomorrow
With this info, then we can have a budget that you can vote for, including
the main goals

I'm also in favor of spending money wisely with a clear expected output,
not just to hang around and have fun in Amsterdam ;-)

My personal target is to review projects and communicate regarding the
review process and how to improve this. Also to automate some of the
process during the summit



On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 12:21 PM, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org> wrote:

> Johanna,
> I think that the majority of the Board is in favor of this and sees the
> value in it.  The challenge is that you've come to us with it after money
> was budgeted for 2015 so we would have to pillage from elsewhere in order
> to make this happen.  More money = more pillaging so we have to be
> conservative with the budget.  How much do we anticipate for "coffee
> breaks" for the summit?  How much do we anticipate for tickets,
> accommodation, and food?  How many people would we actually get off that
> money?  What are the goals and deliverables that will come out of this
> summit?  It becomes a question of ROI at this point and the Board has a
> responsibility to maximize the reward for the Foundation.  If we're
> spending $10k for four people to get together and drink coffee, that's
> probably not money well spent, but if we're spending $50k for a code-a-thon
> where 20 people get together and drastically improve upon our OWASP
> toolset, then that's a huge reward.  For all of our conferences, we ask the
> planners to put together a budget that shows anticipated revenue and
> expenses as well as to provide conference deliverables.  My personal
> opinion is that a summit is no different than a conference, just with a
> different target audience, and that a similar plan should be drafted.  Can
> you put something more formal together that the Board can vote on?  It's
> all very nebulous at this point.
> ~josh
> On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 6:53 AM, johanna curiel curiel <
> johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>> Hi Josh
>> Tentatively? Lets be more specific ;-)
>> Does the board agree yes or no?
>> The money as I have mentioned, will be used to pay the tickets,
>> accommodation and coffee breaks
>> Depending how many leaders would like to assist then I create a breakdown
>> of the cost per leaders (Ticket/Accommodation/Food) and Coffee breaks for
>> in between the sessions. We have 2 rooms but if more projects wants to
>> attend , then we need probably 2 or 3 rooms more
>>    - Flagship leaders have highest prio
>>    - Then LABS
>>    - and then the best out of the incubators
>> The selection is based on their activity level which we have being
>> monitoring through the reviews.
>> If everyone would like to come, I know 10K won't be enough. Probably it
>> will be around 30 to 40K if everyone wants to have sessions but we can
>> accommodate more than one session in one room as done during APPSEC 2013 US.
>> Please let me know what we can expect from the board and if there is an
>> agreement for the 10k at least, be aware, more leaders, then we have more
>> costs but It will be great if we can have at least the top projects leaders
>> together. ZAP and OWTF,ASVS and Dev Guide and  have said yes, but please,
>> be clear if we can count on this budget
>> Regards
>> Johanna
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 10:41 PM, Josh Sokol <josh.sokol at owasp.org> wrote:
>>> Johanna,
>>> Just to be clear, I believe the Board tentatively approved your request
>>> for the $10k, but requested that you provided a more detailed budget
>>> showing what you intended to use the money for.  I don't remember you
>>> asking if you could solicit sponsors through OWASP, but I, personally,
>>> don't see any reason why we couldn't help with that part of the fundraising.
>>> ~josh
>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 5:06 PM, johanna curiel curiel <
>>> johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi Collin
>>>> Indeed my mistake, we didn't set a deadline yet,however by first week
>>>> of March we will close the participation opportunity. We have publish an
>>>> invitation for participation through the OWASP connector
>>>> My answers below
>>>> 1. The comment about "launch and or promote" in that email confused me
>>>> because I thought summits were to generate outputs. Is it more like a
>>>> project showcase? If so, are OWASP projects not a part of the main
>>>> conference program?
>>>> *A summit is not a showcase but an opportunity to have all leaders
>>>> together to discuss and generate output, guidelines, give direction , take
>>>> decision regarding the direction of projects in general. But I think we
>>>> might turn towards Showcases instead of Summits*
>>>> 2. The AppsecEU website doesn't mention this summit. What will be done
>>>> to promote it?
>>>> *Correct. We are looking to first determine how many leaders want to
>>>> assist, apply for a budget and sponsoring in order to publish this
>>>> together *
>>>> 3. Who is getting paid/what?
>>>> *We are looking for sponsors to at least pay for accommodation and
>>>> tickets. The Boards has not answer my question if there is available budget
>>>> for this and if I can send invitation through OWASP to get sponsors. I have
>>>> proposed to ask for sponsors that could help us cover the expenses. This
>>>> summit should have the leaders of the Flagship projects, LABS and the best
>>>> out of the incubators. An invitation was sent to the Flagships and, only a
>>>> couple of them reacted that they could assist*
>>>> 4 . The date and that there are two rooms appear to be new information
>>>> today. What else can be shared please?
>>>> *We are looking for budget but important to determine is, how many
>>>> leaders are willing to assist in order to create a final budget
>>>> covering accommodation/tickets and food for them. No leaders, no summit.*
>>>> 5. What else will the summit be competing with on the same day?
>>>> *The conference sessions on that day*
>>>> Hope this has clarified your questions.
>>>> regards
>>>> Johanna
>>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 3:56 PM, colin.watson at owasp.org <
>>>> colin.watson at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>> Joanna
>>>>> The Amsterdam "project summit " invitation I saw was sent on 21st
>>>>> January:
>>>>> http://lists.owasp.org/pipermail/owasp-leaders/2015-January/013715.html
>>>>> What is the deadline please?
>>>>> Could you provide any more detrimental than appear in the firm's
>>>>> questions?
>>>>> 1. The comment about "launch and or promote" in that email confused me
>>>>> because I thought summits were to generate outputs. Is it more like a
>>>>> project showcase? If so, are OWASP projects not a part of the main
>>>>> conference program?
>>>>> 2. The AppsecEU website doesn't mention this summit. What will be done
>>>>> to promote it?
>>>>> 3. Who is getting paid/what?
>>>>> 4 . The date and that there are two rooms appear to be new information
>>>>> today. What else can be shared please?
>>>>> 5. What else will the summit be competing with on the same day?
>>>>> I am sure other projects will want to participate.
>>>>> Regards Colin
>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>> From: "johanna curiel curiel" <johanna.curiel at owasp.org>
>>>>> To: "owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org" <owasp-leaders at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>> Subject: [Owasp-leaders] Fwd: Project Summit countdown
>>>>> Date: Sun, Feb 8, 2015 18:29
>>>>> >Back to the Project Summit, the interesting question is: *should
>>>>> OWASP invest 50k or 100k on its projects? *
>>>>> Well that is the golden question. I have the impression that key
>>>>> decision makers are reluctant for this part, since it is not clear what
>>>>> will be the output from this. This has being mentioned to me in the past.
>>>>> The question is, how effective is to invest 50 or 100k in a summit and
>>>>> what do we get out of it?
>>>>> I think OWASP should at least invest and help promote those flagship
>>>>> projects and LABS/Incubators doing an excellent work . That is how Project
>>>>> leaders can promote and spread the word out about their projects with OWASP
>>>>> support. But, what about new blood and innovative thinking? I'm seeing many
>>>>> vulnerabilities that are not being handle with new projects or fresh
>>>>> approaches.
>>>>> The key factor is, there is low participation and motivation within
>>>>> the Project leaders. There is not really new blood of ideas coming in and
>>>>> some leaders have decided to start their projects outside OWASP.
>>>>> This is what we need to change and reach, more participation,
>>>>> community bonding and innovative projects.
>>>>> *An idea*
>>>>> All major flagship/LABS and the best incubators projects should be
>>>>> present at Defcon/OWASP conference  for the "OWASP Hackaton Contest"
>>>>> Budget: 50,000K
>>>>> Goals:
>>>>>    - Build new features for OWASP projects,
>>>>>    - Promote OWASP projects and Chapters
>>>>>    - Help actual projects to move fwd with development
>>>>>    - Get new volunteers to work on projects
>>>>>    - Start new innovative projects
>>>>> OWASP Hackaton Activities:
>>>>>    - Help build new features,
>>>>>    - Start a new innovative project
>>>>>    - Become an owaps member/volunteer/start a chapter
>>>>>    - Write documentation,
>>>>>    - Motivation for participation: get recognition and a price(plenty
>>>>>    small prices can be given away such as : Drinks/Food vouchers , T-Shirts
>>>>>    etc).
>>>>> This hackaton should be fun, and help people connect and participate
>>>>> regards
>>>>> Johanna
>>>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Dinis Cruz <dinis.cruz at owasp.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Johanna, as you are seeing, it's really hard to create an OWASP
>>>>>> Project Summit with the current model (with little funding, with no
>>>>>> dedicated team, attached to a conference, etc..)
>>>>>> The formula that worked in the past was to start with a set budget
>>>>>> (lets say 50k to 100k) and :
>>>>>>    - use those funds to make sure the key players (in this case
>>>>>>    project leaders and 'new players') are going to attend (by offering to
>>>>>>    cover all travel and accommodation expenses (while asking them if they can
>>>>>>    get their employee to pay instead))
>>>>>>    - hire a dedicated summit team (for that period)
>>>>>>    - secure dedicated venue and summit resources
>>>>>>    - generate a huge amount of energy about the summit sessions
>>>>>>    (starting by inventing all sorts of sessions, until the real sessions
>>>>>>    become solid)
>>>>>>    - cast a very wide net of 'invitations to attend the summit'
>>>>>>    (with the vision that* 'the summit is THE place to be, where all
>>>>>>    the key players will be in the same location, and  where REAL work can be
>>>>>>    done'*)
>>>>>> The hard part is making people 'believe' in the Summit. The objective
>>>>>> is for our leaders (and attendees) to create the sessions that THEY want to
>>>>>> attend (on top of the infrastructure provided by the Summit). By definition
>>>>>> those sessions will be interested to others, and eventually a virtuous
>>>>>> cycle will start to occur.
>>>>>> Back to the Project Summit, the interesting question is: *should
>>>>>> OWASP invest 50k or 100k on its projects? *
>>>>>> I think the answer is *YES *since Owasp's projects are critical part
>>>>>> of OWASP (which deserves solid investment)
>>>>>> Here are some of my blog posts about my views on OWASP Summits and
>>>>>> OWASP Projects
>>>>>>    - Summits must be part of OWASP's DNA
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2012/04/summits-must-be-part-of-owasps-dna.html>
>>>>>>    - Great description of why OWASP Summits are special
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2012/04/great-description-of-why-owasp-summits.html>
>>>>>>    - OWASP Revenue Splits and the "Non-profits have a charter to be
>>>>>>    innovators"
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2012/12/owasp-revenue-splits-and-non-profits.html>
>>>>>>    - I want to vote for a Summit Team+Vision , NOT for a venue
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2012/04/i-want-to-vote-for-summit-teamvision.html>
>>>>>>    - Some proposed Visions for next OWASP Summit
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2012/04/some-proposed-visions-for-next-owasp.html>
>>>>>>    - Why large OWASP projects start to stale (and who should pay for
>>>>>>    the work)
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2012/04/why-large-owasp-projects-start-to-stale.html>
>>>>>>    - OWASP: Proposed change for SoC: Use budget to pay for project
>>>>>>    related expenses
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2009/06/owasp-proposed-change-for-soc-use.html>
>>>>>>    - Sometimes the best response is just say 'YES'
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2012/10/sometimes-best-response-is-just-say-yes.html>
>>>>>>    - I wish that OWASP in 2014 ....
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2012/11/i-wish-that-owasp-in-2014.html>
>>>>>>    - OWASP Principles based on NHS?
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2013/01/owasp-principles-based-on-nhs.html>
>>>>>>    - On how to get paid to work on OWASP projects
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2013/01/on-how-to-get-paid-to-work-on-owasp.html>
>>>>>>    - ROI on OWASP investment on Projects (ie paying leaders)
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2012/04/roi-on-owasp-investment-on-projects-ie.html>
>>>>>>    - Improved Wikipedia funding page, why OWASP needs something
>>>>>>    similar, and who buys OWASP Corporate Memberships
>>>>>>    <http://blog.diniscruz.com/2012/11/improved-wikipedia-funding-page-why.html>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Dinis
>>>>>> On 7 February 2015 at 19:47, johanna curiel curiel <
>>>>>> johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Board and Project Leaders
>>>>>>> After a first call to get people to assist and participate into the
>>>>>>> Project Summit NL, only 2 major projects(Flagship) have reacted and would
>>>>>>> like to participate.
>>>>>>>    - OWASP ZAP
>>>>>>>    - OWTF
>>>>>>> Right now we have 2 rooms available for this day-20th May (Martin
>>>>>>> please confirm if this is still the case)
>>>>>>> For the rest I think we definitely need to breed in new life into
>>>>>>> projects participation. It can be that for projects with leaders located in
>>>>>>> USA, it will be more convenient to have a small summit there specially for
>>>>>>> them or, we can try to promote participation to projects (looking for
>>>>>>> volunteers, starting a project etc).
>>>>>>> So far , I don't think we can call this a Project Summit , and it
>>>>>>> might get down to ZAP/OWTF summit
>>>>>>> In that case is essential to know:
>>>>>>>    - Identify how many people will be assisting to the ZAP and OWTF
>>>>>>>    session
>>>>>>>    - IF Traveling tickets and accommodation could be paid for
>>>>>>>    ZAP/OWTF leaders
>>>>>>>    - Coffee break sponsorship for the attendees of this summit
>>>>>>> That will basically resume the costs. based on this low attendance I
>>>>>>> don't think I'll be present in Amsterdam.
>>>>>>> I think we need to think of another strategy to promote Owasp
>>>>>>> projects through summits if we want to continue with this. What do we want
>>>>>>> to achieve indeed?
>>>>>>> My impression is that no new innovative projects are being started
>>>>>>> at OWASP.
>>>>>>> We definitely need new 'blood' and innovative thinkers
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Johanna
>>>>>>>  --
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>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/owasp.org/d/msgid/projects-task-force/CACxry_0OwMS2fHm8v2DuK7a2h8oXuo4WpPmiz3cKF2A%3DqXYJRg%40mail.gmail.com
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>>>>>>> .
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