[Owasp-board] For Discussion - Hourly contractor for wiki housekeeping
Jim Manico
jim.manico at owasp.org
Tue Aug 11 23:14:37 UTC 2015
It's there already. Kelly put it up there yesterday.
Aloha,
Jim
On 8/11/15 8:16 AM, Tobias wrote:
> Hi Michael, et al.
>
> just like to remind: if you like to make a proposal for this, our
> board meeting is coming up.
> Please add this to the agenda page.
> https://owasp.org/index.php/August_12,_2015
>
> Thanks, Tobias
>
>
> On 11/08/15 04:58, Jim Manico wrote:
>> The current editing team includes a few from Germany and a few from
>> the US.
>>
>> I am free the next 2 weeks from noon-? Pacific time. I would be super
>> stoked if you help set this up - I'll be there ready to deliver a
>> good pretension on the topic. Cool?
>>
>> Aloha,
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> On 8/10/15 10:57 AM, Noreen Whysel wrote:
>>> When is a good time for you for a wiki editing hangout? Do we have a
>>> sense of where people on the current editing team live?
>>>
>>> Noreen Whysel
>>> Community Manager
>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>> <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Do you all think we should have an open call scheduled for
>>> people intrested in the wiki editing team (and refresher for
>>> those already on it) to walk them through how to edit the wiki
>>> and the FIXME process?
>>>
>>> Please, I should have been doing more of this the past few
>>> months - I'll take any help to spread awareness of the wiki
>>> editor team. Thanks!
>>>
>>> > I am also planning to add a session on wiki editing to the
>>> Chapter Leaders Workshop.
>>>
>>> I'm a wiki ninja, I'd be glad to help with this. :)
>>>
>>> Aloha
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/10/15 10:51 AM, Noreen Whysel wrote:
>>>> I am also planning to add a session on wiki editing to the
>>>> Chapter Leaders Workshop. I could turn that into a training for
>>>> the wiki editing team. I created a course for the NYC Hackathon
>>>> earlier this year but it was more about AppSec in Wikipedia
>>>> instead of just the owasp.org <http://owasp.org> website.
>>>>
>>>> Noreen Whysel
>>>> Community Manager
>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Noreen Whysel
>>>> <noreen.whysel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Do you all think we should have an open call scheduled for
>>>> people intrested in the wiki editing team (and refresher
>>>> for those already on it) to walk them through how to edit
>>>> the wiki and the FIXME process?
>>>>
>>>> Noreen Whysel
>>>> Community Manager
>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Jim Manico
>>>> <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I lead the editors team and have admin wiki access myself.
>>>>
>>>> An I'm sorry if this is a hassle - I am happy to work
>>>> with you to streamline this or give you elevated access
>>>> once we get rolling.
>>>>
>>>> Aloha,
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/10/15 10:24 AM, johanna curiel curiel wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> I know you are very active ;-), I just wanted some
>>>>> clarifications.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was not sure if the the wiki editors had complete
>>>>> access as admin to the wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will highlight the content, provide more relevant
>>>>> links to link from the Home page and let you know when
>>>>> ready.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll continue on the wiki editors mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Johanna
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Jim Manico
>>>>> <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If you email the list it will get done shortly
>>>>> thereafter. Or even if you get delete access and
>>>>> delete yourself - just let us know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Johanna, I'm an active member and when I say I do
>>>>> something I do it. I hope that has been your
>>>>> experience with me over the past few years.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will not let you down. Please do not let this
>>>>> get in the way of doing good work. We have your
>>>>> back and want to help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Aloha,
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 10:07 AM, johanna curiel
>>>>> curiel <johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I take the time to highlight the irrelevant
>>>>>> content and provide a link to which one must go,
>>>>>> who has access and who will do the changes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just hate to do a lot of work and nothing later
>>>>>> happens...or would the wiki editors provide me to
>>>>>> access to change this directly? How do the wiki
>>>>>> editors actually work? Do volunteers just label
>>>>>> things (with FIXME).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like more clarification on this part
>>>>>> since the wiki editors page did not answer this
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Johanna
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Jim Manico
>>>>>> <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thats why we have a group of editors who all
>>>>>> have appsec experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>>> <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 3:30 AM, johanna curiel
>>>>>> curiel <johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> there is a clarification needed of something
>>>>>>> as simple as who is now Responsible for the
>>>>>>> Wiki it's not the community it's not a
>>>>>>> member of the board it is Paul and his hired
>>>>>>> staff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thx Tom. I did not know that and I believe
>>>>>>> neither did Timo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >This is not OWASP of 2004... There is a large
>>>>>>> amounts of funding spent on people hired to
>>>>>>> manage to policy and work per there job
>>>>>>> descriptions. Let's be careful to let them
>>>>>>> do just that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do this staff knows what kind of content
>>>>>>> is relevant or not? I don't think that
>>>>>>> formula is working well right now. That
>>>>>>> content has not been properly updated since
>>>>>>> Sarah's Baso's was Executive director.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /If I/ was the content manager of this site,
>>>>>>> this was long time updated ;-P. If OWASP is
>>>>>>> already paying staff to do this then why is
>>>>>>> not updated? I think that the problem is
>>>>>>> that the staff is not familiar with the
>>>>>>> content so how can they change this content
>>>>>>> or know what is relevant?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The actual content is very outdated and
>>>>>>> irrelevant to sec folks. Again I don't think
>>>>>>> paying another contractor without any
>>>>>>> know-how of the content will help clean the
>>>>>>> wiki properly and highlight relevant
>>>>>>> content.It will be a waste of money.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Johanna
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Tom Brennan
>>>>>>> <tomb at proactiverisk.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> there is a clarification needed of
>>>>>>> something as simple as who is now
>>>>>>> Responsabile for the Wiki it's not the
>>>>>>> community it's not a member of the board
>>>>>>> it is Paul and his hired staff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keep reading..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The operational business of the
>>>>>>> foundation is handled by Paul Richie who
>>>>>>> was hired by the BoD. reporting to him
>>>>>>> is a project coordinator job focus:
>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/images/a/a1/OWASP_Project_Coordinator-FabioTobiasAug25.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and community manager
>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Jobs/Community_Manager
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's pause an review the above job
>>>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The volunteers who create/edit content
>>>>>>> as part of the community should do so in
>>>>>>> step with the people who's paid job is
>>>>>>> to shepard reward encourage and drive
>>>>>>> this. Call it a committee task force
>>>>>>> wiki group what ever.... But end of day
>>>>>>> there is now a chain of command and that
>>>>>>> starts with the operations people that
>>>>>>> are measured on what they do and
>>>>>>> compensated for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul should be and I am sure is asking
>>>>>>> and getting feedback from the
>>>>>>> employees/staff on how to approach this
>>>>>>> and ultimately it is his decisions on
>>>>>>> the logistics of the operation. If it
>>>>>>> works GREAT if it does not, try try again
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is not OWASP of 2004... There is a
>>>>>>> large amounts of funding spent on people
>>>>>>> hired to manage to policy and work per
>>>>>>> there job descriptions. Let's be careful
>>>>>>> to let them do just that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Collaborate with them but don't step on
>>>>>>> over or around them. If there is a
>>>>>>> problem escalate as a complaint if needed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plans (next 30 days)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Progress (accomplishments of last 30 days)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Problems (board meeting agenda item for
>>>>>>> vote that the staff can't handle without
>>>>>>> guidance an a vote)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As simple as that we should be able to
>>>>>>> communicate what is going on at OWASP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMHO edit and redirect away, don't
>>>>>>> delete. It's a wiki
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 8:47 AM, johanna
>>>>>>> curiel curiel <johanna.curiel at owasp.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think if you give Johanna and I
>>>>>>>> delete rights on the wiki it would do
>>>>>>>> much more good as opposed to hiring
>>>>>>>> somebody who is not familiar with the
>>>>>>>> content or the projects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If this becomes a project under our
>>>>>>>> guidance(which I think unfamiliar
>>>>>>>> people to the content cannot provide)
>>>>>>>> is essential
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Example
>>>>>>>> From the home page you get this link:
>>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:How_To
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is very old stuff and there are
>>>>>>>> more relevant content and projects that
>>>>>>>> promoting from the home page the "OWASP
>>>>>>>> LiveCD Education Project (SpoC 2007)"
>>>>>>>> and "Webscarab" .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What we need is a _technical editor _to
>>>>>>>> help us re-write and correct the text.
>>>>>>>> This way we can highlight relevant
>>>>>>>> content and there is so much but is not
>>>>>>>> properly promoted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This whole section is really VERY
>>>>>>>> outdated and irrelevant right now,
>>>>>>>> especially from the homepage
>>>>>>>> <Screenshot 2015-08-10 08.42.41.png>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With all due respect, you need to know
>>>>>>>> the content in order to direct users to
>>>>>>>> relevant one. We know which is
>>>>>>>> the relevant content(especially
>>>>>>>> people familiar with the latest and
>>>>>>>> updated projects)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We can make a plan of what will be
>>>>>>>> clean up before deleting or doing
>>>>>>>> anything, but it's clear that without
>>>>>>>> know-how of the content, hiring someone
>>>>>>>> will be not very efficient or effective
>>>>>>>> in my opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Johanna
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Jim
>>>>>>>> Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I support giving you both delete
>>>>>>>> access so long as you send a note
>>>>>>>> to the wiki editor list and just
>>>>>>>> let us know what you are up to...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>>>>> <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 9, 2015, at 11:21 PM, Timo
>>>>>>>> Goosen <timo.goosen at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I still feel that people on the
>>>>>>>>> project task force should have
>>>>>>>>> delete rights on the wiki.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If people want to see stuff for
>>>>>>>>> archiving purposes they can use
>>>>>>>>> archive.org <http://archive.org>
>>>>>>>>> to view the page.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The owasp wiki looks sloppy at the
>>>>>>>>> moment and we should clean it up.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think if you give Johanna and I
>>>>>>>>> delete rights on the wiki it would
>>>>>>>>> do much more good as opposed to
>>>>>>>>> hiring somebody who is not
>>>>>>>>> familiar with the content or the
>>>>>>>>> projects.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>>>> Timo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 11:26 PM,
>>>>>>>>> Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >There would need to be a
>>>>>>>>> category that replaces "FIXME"
>>>>>>>>> with "Archived" or something
>>>>>>>>> similar for the archived page.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is currently the
>>>>>>>>> "historical" flag.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> |[[Categorie:FIXME/historical]]|
>>>>>>>>> out of date but archived for
>>>>>>>>> historical context
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some content is good to save,
>>>>>>>>> some is just junk. The
>>>>>>>>> wiki-editors group is set up
>>>>>>>>> to answer those questions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Aloha,
>>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Another issue I just thought
>>>>>>>>>> of: If a page is simply
>>>>>>>>>> archived it will still show
>>>>>>>>>> up in search. This is not a
>>>>>>>>>> problem if the page redirects
>>>>>>>>>> to a newer or more relevant
>>>>>>>>>> one. But could be if it is
>>>>>>>>>> not clearly tagged as an
>>>>>>>>>> archived/outdated page.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>>>> Community Manager
>>>>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 9, 2015, at 4:24 PM,
>>>>>>>>>> Bev Corwin
>>>>>>>>>> <bev.corwin at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nice explanation Noreen,
>>>>>>>>>>> thank you, just curious, do
>>>>>>>>>>> you think that it is
>>>>>>>>>>> important to reference the
>>>>>>>>>>> history details on the
>>>>>>>>>>> pages, or would the
>>>>>>>>>>> automated history / changes
>>>>>>>>>>> tracking information be
>>>>>>>>>>> enough for anyone looking
>>>>>>>>>>> for any archives?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 2:38
>>>>>>>>>>> PM, Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>>>>> <noreen.whysel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Redirects are simple.
>>>>>>>>>>> Add
>>>>>>>>>>> #REDIRECT [[:NewPage]] to the
>>>>>>>>>>> edit field and it will
>>>>>>>>>>> redirect to the new
>>>>>>>>>>> page. All the old page
>>>>>>>>>>> history is saved and
>>>>>>>>>>> viewed very easily by
>>>>>>>>>>> typing the URL,
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php?title=Old_Page_Title&action=history.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jim Manico
>>>> Global Board Member
>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>> <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jim Manico
>>> Global Board Member
>>> OWASP Foundation
>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Manico
>> Global Board Member
>> OWASP Foundation
>> https://www.owasp.org
>> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Owasp-board mailing list
>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>
--
Jim Manico
Global Board Member
OWASP Foundation
https://www.owasp.org
Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
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