[Owasp-board] For Discussion - Hourly contractor for wiki housekeeping

Tobias tobias.gondrom at owasp.org
Tue Aug 11 18:16:42 UTC 2015


Hi Michael, et al.

just like to remind: if you like to make a proposal for this, our board 
meeting is coming up.
Please add this to the agenda page.
https://owasp.org/index.php/August_12,_2015

Thanks, Tobias


On 11/08/15 04:58, Jim Manico wrote:
> The current editing team includes a few from Germany and a few from 
> the US.
>
> I am free the next 2 weeks from noon-? Pacific time. I would be super 
> stoked if you help set this up - I'll be there ready to deliver a good 
> pretension on the topic. Cool?
>
> Aloha,
> Jim
>
>
> On 8/10/15 10:57 AM, Noreen Whysel wrote:
>> When is a good time for you for a wiki editing hangout? Do we have a 
>> sense of where people on the current editing team live?
>>
>> Noreen Whysel
>> Community Manager
>> OWASP Foundation
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org 
>> <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     > Do you all think we should have an open call scheduled for
>>     people intrested in the wiki editing team (and refresher for
>>     those already on it) to walk them through how to edit the wiki
>>     and the FIXME process?
>>
>>     Please, I should have been doing more of this the past few months
>>     - I'll take any help to spread awareness of the wiki editor team.
>>     Thanks!
>>
>>     > I am also planning to add a session on wiki editing to the
>>     Chapter Leaders Workshop.
>>
>>     I'm a wiki ninja, I'd be glad to help with this. :)
>>
>>     Aloha
>>     Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>     On 8/10/15 10:51 AM, Noreen Whysel wrote:
>>>     I am also planning to add a session on wiki editing to the
>>>     Chapter Leaders Workshop. I could turn that into a training for
>>>     the wiki editing team. I created a course for the NYC Hackathon
>>>     earlier this year but it was more about AppSec in Wikipedia
>>>     instead of just the owasp.org <http://owasp.org> website.
>>>
>>>     Noreen Whysel
>>>     Community Manager
>>>     OWASP Foundation
>>>
>>>     On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Noreen Whysel
>>>     <noreen.whysel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Do you all think we should have an open call scheduled for
>>>         people intrested in the wiki editing team (and refresher for
>>>         those already on it) to walk them through how to edit the
>>>         wiki and the FIXME process?
>>>
>>>         Noreen Whysel
>>>         Community Manager
>>>         OWASP Foundation
>>>
>>>         On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Jim Manico
>>>         <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>             I lead the editors team and have admin wiki access myself.
>>>
>>>             An I'm sorry if this is a hassle - I am happy to work
>>>             with you to streamline this or give you elevated access
>>>             once we get rolling.
>>>
>>>             Aloha,
>>>             Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             On 8/10/15 10:24 AM, johanna curiel curiel wrote:
>>>>             Hi Jim
>>>>
>>>>             I know you are very active ;-), I just wanted some
>>>>             clarifications.
>>>>
>>>>             I was not sure if the the wiki editors had complete
>>>>             access as admin to the wiki.
>>>>
>>>>             I will highlight the content, provide more relevant
>>>>             links to link from the Home page and let you know when
>>>>             ready.
>>>>
>>>>             I'll continue on the wiki editors mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>             regards
>>>>
>>>>             Johanna
>>>>
>>>>             On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Jim Manico
>>>>             <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 If you email the list it will get done shortly
>>>>                 thereafter. Or even if you get delete access and
>>>>                 delete yourself - just let us know.
>>>>
>>>>                 Johanna, I'm an active member and when I say I do
>>>>                 something I do it. I hope that has been your
>>>>                 experience with me over the past few years.
>>>>
>>>>                 I will not let you down. Please do not let this get
>>>>                 in the way of doing good work. We have your back
>>>>                 and want to help.
>>>>
>>>>                 Aloha,
>>>>                 --
>>>>                 Jim Manico
>>>>                 Global Board Member
>>>>                 OWASP Foundation
>>>>                 https://www.owasp.org
>>>>                 Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>
>>>>                 On Aug 10, 2015, at 10:07 AM, johanna curiel curiel
>>>>                 <johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>                 Hi Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>                 If I take the time to highlight the irrelevant
>>>>>                 content and provide a link to which one must go,
>>>>>                 who has access and who will do the changes?
>>>>>
>>>>>                 I just hate to do a lot of work and nothing later
>>>>>                 happens...or would the wiki editors provide me to
>>>>>                 access to change this directly? How do the wiki
>>>>>                 editors actually work? Do volunteers just label
>>>>>                 things (with FIXME).
>>>>>
>>>>>                 I would like more clarification on this part since
>>>>>                 the wiki editors page did not answer this
>>>>>
>>>>>                 regards
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Johanna
>>>>>
>>>>>                 On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Jim Manico
>>>>>                 <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Thats why we have a group of editors who all
>>>>>                     have appsec experience.
>>>>>
>>>>>                     https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors
>>>>>
>>>>>                     --
>>>>>                     Jim Manico
>>>>>                     Global Board Member
>>>>>                     OWASP Foundation
>>>>>                     https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>                     Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>
>>>>>                     On Aug 10, 2015, at 3:30 AM, johanna curiel
>>>>>                     curiel <johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>                     there is a clarification needed of something
>>>>>>                     as simple as who is now Responsible for the
>>>>>>                     Wiki it's not the community it's not a member
>>>>>>                     of the board it is Paul and his hired staff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     Thx Tom. I did not know that and I believe
>>>>>>                     neither did Timo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     >This is not OWASP of 2004... There is a large
>>>>>>                     amounts of funding spent on people hired to
>>>>>>                     manage to policy and work per there job
>>>>>>                     descriptions. Let's be careful to let them do
>>>>>>                     just that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     How do this staff knows what kind of content
>>>>>>                     is relevant or not? I don't think that
>>>>>>                     formula is working well right now. That
>>>>>>                     content has not been properly updated since
>>>>>>                     Sarah's Baso's was Executive director.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     /If I/ was the content manager of this site,
>>>>>>                     this was long time updated ;-P. If OWASP is
>>>>>>                     already paying staff to do this then why is
>>>>>>                     not updated? I think that the problem is that
>>>>>>                     the staff is not familiar with the content so
>>>>>>                     how can they change this content or know what
>>>>>>                     is relevant?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     The actual content is very outdated and
>>>>>>                     irrelevant to sec folks. Again I don't think
>>>>>>                     paying another contractor without any
>>>>>>                     know-how of the content will help clean the
>>>>>>                     wiki properly and highlight relevant
>>>>>>                     content.It will be a waste of money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     Johanna
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Tom Brennan
>>>>>>                     <tomb at proactiverisk.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         there is a clarification needed of
>>>>>>                         something as simple as who is now
>>>>>>                         Responsabile for the Wiki it's not the
>>>>>>                         community it's not a member of the board
>>>>>>                         it is Paul and his hired staff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Keep reading..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         The operational business of the
>>>>>>                         foundation is handled by Paul Richie who
>>>>>>                         was hired by the BoD.  reporting to him
>>>>>>                         is a project coordinator job focus:
>>>>>>                         https://www.owasp.org/images/a/a1/OWASP_Project_Coordinator-FabioTobiasAug25.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         and community manager
>>>>>>                         https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Jobs/Community_Manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Let's pause an review the above job
>>>>>>                         descriptions
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         The volunteers who create/edit content as
>>>>>>                         part of the community should do so in
>>>>>>                         step with the people who's paid job is to
>>>>>>                         shepard reward encourage and drive this.
>>>>>>                         Call it a committee task force wiki group
>>>>>>                         what ever.... But end of day there is now
>>>>>>                         a chain of command and that starts with
>>>>>>                         the operations people that are measured
>>>>>>                         on what they do and compensated for it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Paul should be and I am sure is asking
>>>>>>                         and getting feedback from the
>>>>>>                         employees/staff on how to approach this
>>>>>>                         and ultimately it is his decisions on the
>>>>>>                         logistics of the operation.  If it works
>>>>>>                         GREAT if it does not, try try again
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         This is not OWASP of 2004... There is a
>>>>>>                         large amounts of funding spent on people
>>>>>>                         hired to manage to policy and work per
>>>>>>                         there job descriptions. Let's be careful
>>>>>>                         to let them do just that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Collaborate with them but don't step on
>>>>>>                         over or around them. If there is a
>>>>>>                         problem escalate as a complaint if needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Plans (next 30 days)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Progress (accomplishments of last 30 days)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Problems (board meeting agenda item for
>>>>>>                         vote that the staff can't handle without
>>>>>>                         guidance an a vote)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         As simple as that we should be able to
>>>>>>                         communicate what is going on at OWASP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         IMHO edit and redirect away, don't
>>>>>>                         delete. It's a wiki
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         On Aug 10, 2015, at 8:47 AM, johanna
>>>>>>                         curiel curiel <johanna.curiel at owasp.org>
>>>>>>                         wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         I think if you give Johanna and I delete
>>>>>>>                         rights on the wiki it would do much more
>>>>>>>                         good as opposed to hiring somebody who
>>>>>>>                         is not familiar with the content or the
>>>>>>>                         projects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         If this becomes a project under our
>>>>>>>                         guidance(which I think unfamiliar people
>>>>>>>                         to the content cannot provide) is essential
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         Example
>>>>>>>                         From the home page you get this link:
>>>>>>>                         https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:How_To
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         This is very old stuff and there are
>>>>>>>                         more relevant content and projects that
>>>>>>>                         promoting from the home page the "OWASP
>>>>>>>                         LiveCD Education Project (SpoC 2007)"
>>>>>>>                         and "Webscarab" .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         What we need is a _technical editor _to
>>>>>>>                         help us re-write and correct the text.
>>>>>>>                         This way we can highlight relevant
>>>>>>>                         content and there is so much but is not
>>>>>>>                         properly promoted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         This whole section is really VERY
>>>>>>>                         outdated and irrelevant right now,
>>>>>>>                         especially from the homepage
>>>>>>>                         <Screenshot 2015-08-10 08.42.41.png>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         With all due respect, you need to know
>>>>>>>                         the content in order to direct users to
>>>>>>>                         relevant one. We know which is
>>>>>>>                         the relevant content(especially
>>>>>>>                         people familiar with the latest and
>>>>>>>                         updated projects)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         We can make a plan of what will be clean
>>>>>>>                         up before deleting or doing anything,
>>>>>>>                         but it's clear that without know-how of
>>>>>>>                         the content, hiring someone will be not
>>>>>>>                         very efficient or effective in my opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         Johanna
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Jim
>>>>>>>                         Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             I support giving you both delete
>>>>>>>                             access so long as you send a note to
>>>>>>>                             the wiki editor list and just let us
>>>>>>>                             know what you are up to...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             --
>>>>>>>                             Jim Manico
>>>>>>>                             Global Board Member
>>>>>>>                             OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>                             https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>>                             Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>>>>                             <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             On Aug 9, 2015, at 11:21 PM, Timo
>>>>>>>                             Goosen <timo.goosen at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             I still feel that people on the
>>>>>>>>                             project task force should have
>>>>>>>>                             delete rights on the wiki.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             If people want to see stuff for
>>>>>>>>                             archiving purposes they can use
>>>>>>>>                             archive.org <http://archive.org> to
>>>>>>>>                             view the page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             The owasp wiki looks sloppy at the
>>>>>>>>                             moment and we should clean it up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             I think if you give Johanna and I
>>>>>>>>                             delete rights on the wiki it would
>>>>>>>>                             do much more good as opposed to
>>>>>>>>                             hiring somebody who is not familiar
>>>>>>>>                             with the content or the projects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             Regards.
>>>>>>>>                             Timo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 11:26 PM,
>>>>>>>>                             Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>>>>>>>>                             wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                                  >There would need to be a
>>>>>>>>                                 category that replaces "FIXME"
>>>>>>>>                                 with "Archived" or something
>>>>>>>>                                 similar for the archived page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                                 That is currently the
>>>>>>>>                                 "historical" flag.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                                 |[[Categorie:FIXME/historical]]|
>>>>>>>>                                 out of date but archived for
>>>>>>>>                                 historical context
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                                 Some content is good to save,
>>>>>>>>                                 some is just junk. The
>>>>>>>>                                 wiki-editors group is set up to
>>>>>>>>                                 answer those questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                                 https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                                 Aloha,
>>>>>>>>                                 Jim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                                 Another issue I just thought
>>>>>>>>>                                 of: If a page is simply
>>>>>>>>>                                 archived it will still show up
>>>>>>>>>                                 in search. This is not a
>>>>>>>>>                                 problem if the page redirects
>>>>>>>>>                                 to a newer or more relevant
>>>>>>>>>                                 one. But could be if it is not
>>>>>>>>>                                 clearly tagged as an
>>>>>>>>>                                 archived/outdated page.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                                 Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>>>                                 Community Manager
>>>>>>>>>                                 OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                                 On Aug 9, 2015, at 4:24 PM,
>>>>>>>>>                                 Bev Corwin
>>>>>>>>>                                 <bev.corwin at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                                 Nice explanation Noreen,
>>>>>>>>>>                                 thank you, just curious, do
>>>>>>>>>>                                 you think that it is
>>>>>>>>>>                                 important to reference the
>>>>>>>>>>                                 history details on the pages,
>>>>>>>>>>                                 or would the automated
>>>>>>>>>>                                 history / changes tracking
>>>>>>>>>>                                 information be enough for
>>>>>>>>>>                                 anyone looking for any archives?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                                 Bev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                                 On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 2:38
>>>>>>>>>>                                 PM, Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>>>>                                 <noreen.whysel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                                     Redirects are simple. Add
>>>>>>>>>>                                     #REDIRECT [[:NewPage]] to
>>>>>>>>>>                                     the edit field and it
>>>>>>>>>>                                     will redirect to the new
>>>>>>>>>>                                     page. All the old page
>>>>>>>>>>                                     history is saved and
>>>>>>>>>>                                     viewed very easily by
>>>>>>>>>>                                     typing the URL,
>>>>>>>>>>                                     https://www.owasp.org/index.php?title=Old_Page_Title&action=history.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>                                 Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>>>>                                 Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org  <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>>>>>>                                 https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                                 -- 
>>>>>>>>                                 Jim Manico
>>>>>>>>                                 Global Board Member
>>>>>>>>                                 OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>>                                 https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>>>                                 Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>                                 Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>>>                                 Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>>>                                 https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>                             Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>>                             Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>>                             https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>                         Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>>                         Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>>                         https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>             -- 
>>>             Jim Manico
>>>             Global Board Member
>>>             OWASP Foundation
>>>             https://www.owasp.org
>>>             Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>>>
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             Owasp-board mailing list
>>>             Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>             <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>             https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Jim Manico
>>     Global Board Member
>>     OWASP Foundation
>>     https://www.owasp.org
>>     Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Jim Manico
> Global Board Member
> OWASP Foundation
> https://www.owasp.org
> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Owasp-board mailing list
> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board

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