[Owasp-board] For Discussion - Hourly contractor for wiki housekeeping
Jim Manico
jim.manico at owasp.org
Mon Aug 10 20:58:56 UTC 2015
The current editing team includes a few from Germany and a few from the US.
I am free the next 2 weeks from noon-? Pacific time. I would be super
stoked if you help set this up - I'll be there ready to deliver a good
pretension on the topic. Cool?
Aloha,
Jim
On 8/10/15 10:57 AM, Noreen Whysel wrote:
> When is a good time for you for a wiki editing hangout? Do we have a
> sense of where people on the current editing team live?
>
> Noreen Whysel
> Community Manager
> OWASP Foundation
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org
> <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
> > Do you all think we should have an open call scheduled for
> people intrested in the wiki editing team (and refresher for those
> already on it) to walk them through how to edit the wiki and the
> FIXME process?
>
> Please, I should have been doing more of this the past few months
> - I'll take any help to spread awareness of the wiki editor team.
> Thanks!
>
> > I am also planning to add a session on wiki editing to the
> Chapter Leaders Workshop.
>
> I'm a wiki ninja, I'd be glad to help with this. :)
>
> Aloha
> Jim
>
>
>
> On 8/10/15 10:51 AM, Noreen Whysel wrote:
>> I am also planning to add a session on wiki editing to the
>> Chapter Leaders Workshop. I could turn that into a training for
>> the wiki editing team. I created a course for the NYC Hackathon
>> earlier this year but it was more about AppSec in Wikipedia
>> instead of just the owasp.org <http://owasp.org> website.
>>
>> Noreen Whysel
>> Community Manager
>> OWASP Foundation
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Noreen Whysel
>> <noreen.whysel at owasp.org <mailto:noreen.whysel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Do you all think we should have an open call scheduled for
>> people intrested in the wiki editing team (and refresher for
>> those already on it) to walk them through how to edit the
>> wiki and the FIXME process?
>>
>> Noreen Whysel
>> Community Manager
>> OWASP Foundation
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Jim Manico
>> <jim.manico at owasp.org <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>> I lead the editors team and have admin wiki access myself.
>>
>> An I'm sorry if this is a hassle - I am happy to work
>> with you to streamline this or give you elevated access
>> once we get rolling.
>>
>> Aloha,
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/10/15 10:24 AM, johanna curiel curiel wrote:
>>> Hi Jim
>>>
>>> I know you are very active ;-), I just wanted some
>>> clarifications.
>>>
>>> I was not sure if the the wiki editors had complete
>>> access as admin to the wiki.
>>>
>>> I will highlight the content, provide more relevant
>>> links to link from the Home page and let you know when
>>> ready.
>>>
>>> I'll continue on the wiki editors mailing list.
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Johanna
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Jim Manico
>>> <jim.manico at owasp.org <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you email the list it will get done shortly
>>> thereafter. Or even if you get delete access and
>>> delete yourself - just let us know.
>>>
>>> Johanna, I'm an active member and when I say I do
>>> something I do it. I hope that has been your
>>> experience with me over the past few years.
>>>
>>> I will not let you down. Please do not let this get
>>> in the way of doing good work. We have your back and
>>> want to help.
>>>
>>> Aloha,
>>> --
>>> Jim Manico
>>> Global Board Member
>>> OWASP Foundation
>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>
>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 10:07 AM, johanna curiel curiel
>>> <johanna.curiel at owasp.org
>>> <mailto:johanna.curiel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jim
>>>>
>>>> If I take the time to highlight the irrelevant
>>>> content and provide a link to which one must go,
>>>> who has access and who will do the changes?
>>>>
>>>> I just hate to do a lot of work and nothing later
>>>> happens...or would the wiki editors provide me to
>>>> access to change this directly? How do the wiki
>>>> editors actually work? Do volunteers just label
>>>> things (with FIXME).
>>>>
>>>> I would like more clarification on this part since
>>>> the wiki editors page did not answer this
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>>
>>>> Johanna
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Jim Manico
>>>> <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>>> <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thats why we have a group of editors who all
>>>> have appsec experience.
>>>>
>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jim Manico
>>>> Global Board Member
>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 3:30 AM, johanna curiel
>>>> curiel <johanna.curiel at owasp.org
>>>> <mailto:johanna.curiel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> there is a clarification needed of something
>>>>> as simple as who is now Responsible for the
>>>>> Wiki it's not the community it's not a member
>>>>> of the board it is Paul and his hired staff.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thx Tom. I did not know that and I believe
>>>>> neither did Timo.
>>>>>
>>>>> >This is not OWASP of 2004... There is a large
>>>>> amounts of funding spent on people hired to
>>>>> manage to policy and work per there job
>>>>> descriptions. Let's be careful to let them do
>>>>> just that.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do this staff knows what kind of content
>>>>> is relevant or not? I don't think that formula
>>>>> is working well right now. That content has
>>>>> not been properly updated since Sarah's Baso's
>>>>> was Executive director.
>>>>>
>>>>> /If I/ was the content manager of this site,
>>>>> this was long time updated ;-P. If OWASP is
>>>>> already paying staff to do this then why is
>>>>> not updated? I think that the problem is that
>>>>> the staff is not familiar with the content so
>>>>> how can they change this content or know what
>>>>> is relevant?
>>>>>
>>>>> The actual content is very outdated and
>>>>> irrelevant to sec folks. Again I don't think
>>>>> paying another contractor without any know-how
>>>>> of the content will help clean the wiki
>>>>> properly and highlight relevant content.It
>>>>> will be a waste of money.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Johanna
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Tom Brennan
>>>>> <tomb at proactiverisk.com
>>>>> <mailto:tomb at proactiverisk.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> there is a clarification needed of
>>>>> something as simple as who is now
>>>>> Responsabile for the Wiki it's not the
>>>>> community it's not a member of the board
>>>>> it is Paul and his hired staff.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keep reading..
>>>>>
>>>>> The operational business of the foundation
>>>>> is handled by Paul Richie who was hired by
>>>>> the BoD. reporting to him is a project
>>>>> coordinator job focus:
>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/images/a/a1/OWASP_Project_Coordinator-FabioTobiasAug25.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> and community manager
>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Jobs/Community_Manager
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's pause an review the above job
>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>
>>>>> The volunteers who create/edit content as
>>>>> part of the community should do so in step
>>>>> with the people who's paid job is to
>>>>> shepard reward encourage and drive this.
>>>>> Call it a committee task force wiki group
>>>>> what ever.... But end of day there is now
>>>>> a chain of command and that starts with
>>>>> the operations people that are measured on
>>>>> what they do and compensated for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul should be and I am sure is asking and
>>>>> getting feedback from the employees/staff
>>>>> on how to approach this and ultimately it
>>>>> is his decisions on the logistics of the
>>>>> operation. If it works GREAT if it does
>>>>> not, try try again
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not OWASP of 2004... There is a
>>>>> large amounts of funding spent on people
>>>>> hired to manage to policy and work per
>>>>> there job descriptions. Let's be careful
>>>>> to let them do just that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Collaborate with them but don't step on
>>>>> over or around them. If there is a problem
>>>>> escalate as a complaint if needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Plans (next 30 days)
>>>>>
>>>>> Progress (accomplishments of last 30 days)
>>>>>
>>>>> Problems (board meeting agenda item for
>>>>> vote that the staff can't handle without
>>>>> guidance an a vote)
>>>>>
>>>>> As simple as that we should be able to
>>>>> communicate what is going on at OWASP
>>>>>
>>>>> IMHO edit and redirect away, don't delete.
>>>>> It's a wiki
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 8:47 AM, johanna
>>>>> curiel curiel <johanna.curiel at owasp.org
>>>>> <mailto:johanna.curiel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think if you give Johanna and I delete
>>>>>> rights on the wiki it would do much more
>>>>>> good as opposed to hiring somebody who is
>>>>>> not familiar with the content or the
>>>>>> projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this becomes a project under our
>>>>>> guidance(which I think unfamiliar people
>>>>>> to the content cannot provide) is essential
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Example
>>>>>> From the home page you get this link:
>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:How_To
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is very old stuff and there are more
>>>>>> relevant content and projects that
>>>>>> promoting from the home page the "OWASP
>>>>>> LiveCD Education Project (SpoC 2007)" and
>>>>>> "Webscarab" .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What we need is a _technical editor _to
>>>>>> help us re-write and correct the text.
>>>>>> This way we can highlight relevant
>>>>>> content and there is so much but is not
>>>>>> properly promoted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This whole section is really VERY
>>>>>> outdated and irrelevant right now,
>>>>>> especially from the homepage
>>>>>> <Screenshot 2015-08-10 08.42.41.png>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With all due respect, you need to know
>>>>>> the content in order to direct users to
>>>>>> relevant one. We know which is
>>>>>> the relevant content(especially
>>>>>> people familiar with the latest and
>>>>>> updated projects)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can make a plan of what will be clean
>>>>>> up before deleting or doing anything, but
>>>>>> it's clear that without know-how of the
>>>>>> content, hiring someone will be not very
>>>>>> efficient or effective in my opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Johanna
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Jim
>>>>>> Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>>>>> <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I support giving you both delete
>>>>>> access so long as you send a note to
>>>>>> the wiki editor list and just let us
>>>>>> know what you are up to...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>>> <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 9, 2015, at 11:21 PM, Timo
>>>>>> Goosen <timo.goosen at owasp.org
>>>>>> <mailto:timo.goosen at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still feel that people on the
>>>>>>> project task force should have
>>>>>>> delete rights on the wiki.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If people want to see stuff for
>>>>>>> archiving purposes they can use
>>>>>>> archive.org <http://archive.org> to
>>>>>>> view the page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The owasp wiki looks sloppy at the
>>>>>>> moment and we should clean it up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think if you give Johanna and I
>>>>>>> delete rights on the wiki it would
>>>>>>> do much more good as opposed to
>>>>>>> hiring somebody who is not familiar
>>>>>>> with the content or the projects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>> Timo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Jim
>>>>>>> Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >There would need to be a
>>>>>>> category that replaces "FIXME"
>>>>>>> with "Archived" or something
>>>>>>> similar for the archived page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is currently the
>>>>>>> "historical" flag.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> |[[Categorie:FIXME/historical]]| out
>>>>>>> of date but archived for
>>>>>>> historical context
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some content is good to save,
>>>>>>> some is just junk. The
>>>>>>> wiki-editors group is set up to
>>>>>>> answer those questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aloha,
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another issue I just thought
>>>>>>>> of: If a page is simply
>>>>>>>> archived it will still show up
>>>>>>>> in search. This is not a
>>>>>>>> problem if the page redirects
>>>>>>>> to a newer or more relevant
>>>>>>>> one. But could be if it is not
>>>>>>>> clearly tagged as an
>>>>>>>> archived/outdated page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>> Community Manager
>>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 9, 2015, at 4:24 PM, Bev
>>>>>>>> Corwin <bev.corwin at owasp.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:bev.corwin at owasp.org>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nice explanation Noreen, thank
>>>>>>>>> you, just curious, do you
>>>>>>>>> think that it is important to
>>>>>>>>> reference the history details
>>>>>>>>> on the pages, or would the
>>>>>>>>> automated history / changes
>>>>>>>>> tracking information be enough
>>>>>>>>> for anyone looking for any
>>>>>>>>> archives?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 2:38
>>>>>>>>> PM, Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>>> <noreen.whysel at owasp.org
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:noreen.whysel at owasp.org>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Redirects are simple. Add
>>>>>>>>> #REDIRECT [[:NewPage]] to
>>>>>>>>> the edit field and it will
>>>>>>>>> redirect to the new page.
>>>>>>>>> All the old page history
>>>>>>>>> is saved and viewed very
>>>>>>>>> easily by typing the URL,
>>>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php?title=Old_Page_Title&action=history.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>> <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>> <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Manico
>> Global Board Member
>> OWASP Foundation
>> https://www.owasp.org
>> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Owasp-board mailing list
>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>> <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jim Manico
> Global Board Member
> OWASP Foundation
> https://www.owasp.org
> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>
>
--
Jim Manico
Global Board Member
OWASP Foundation
https://www.owasp.org
Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
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