[Owasp-board] For Discussion - Hourly contractor for wiki housekeeping

Noreen Whysel noreen.whysel at owasp.org
Mon Aug 10 20:57:14 UTC 2015


When is a good time for you for a wiki editing hangout? Do we have a sense
of where people on the current editing team live?

Noreen Whysel
Community Manager
OWASP Foundation

On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:

> > Do you all think we should have an open call scheduled for people
> intrested in the wiki editing team (and refresher for those already on it)
> to walk them through how to edit the wiki and the FIXME process?
>
> Please, I should have been doing more of this the past few months - I'll
> take any help to spread awareness of the wiki editor team. Thanks!
>
> > I am also planning to add a session on wiki editing to the Chapter
> Leaders Workshop.
>
> I'm a wiki ninja, I'd be glad to help with this. :)
>
> Aloha
> Jim
>
>
>
> On 8/10/15 10:51 AM, Noreen Whysel wrote:
>
> I am also planning to add a session on wiki editing to the Chapter Leaders
> Workshop. I could turn that into a training for the wiki editing team. I
> created a course for the NYC Hackathon earlier this year but it was more
> about AppSec in Wikipedia instead of just the owasp.org website.
>
> Noreen Whysel
> Community Manager
> OWASP Foundation
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Noreen Whysel <noreen.whysel at owasp.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Do you all think we should have an open call scheduled for people
>> intrested in the wiki editing team (and refresher for those already on it)
>> to walk them through how to edit the wiki and the FIXME process?
>>
>> Noreen Whysel
>> Community Manager
>> OWASP Foundation
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Jim Manico < <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>> jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I lead the editors team and have admin wiki access myself.
>>>
>>> An I'm sorry if this is a hassle - I am happy to work with you to
>>> streamline this or give you elevated access once we get rolling.
>>>
>>> Aloha,
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/10/15 10:24 AM, johanna curiel curiel wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jim
>>>
>>> I know you are very active ;-), I just wanted some clarifications.
>>>
>>> I was not sure if the the wiki editors had complete access as admin to
>>> the wiki.
>>>
>>> I will highlight the content, provide more relevant links to link from
>>> the Home page and let you know when ready.
>>>
>>> I'll continue on the wiki editors mailing list.
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Johanna
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Jim Manico < <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>>> jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you email the list it will get done shortly thereafter. Or even if
>>>> you get delete access and delete yourself - just let us know.
>>>>
>>>> Johanna, I'm an active member and when I say I do something I do it. I
>>>> hope that has been your experience with me over the past few years.
>>>>
>>>> I will not let you down. Please do not let this get in the way of doing
>>>> good work. We have your back and want to help.
>>>>
>>>> Aloha,
>>>> --
>>>> Jim Manico
>>>> Global Board Member
>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/>https://www.owasp.org
>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 10:07 AM, johanna curiel curiel <
>>>> <johanna.curiel at owasp.org>johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Jim
>>>>
>>>> If I take the time to highlight the irrelevant content and provide a
>>>> link to which one must go, who has access and who will do the changes?
>>>>
>>>> I just hate to do a lot of work and nothing later happens...or would
>>>> the wiki editors provide me to access to change this directly? How do the
>>>> wiki editors actually work? Do volunteers just label things (with FIXME).
>>>>
>>>> I would like more clarification on this part since the wiki editors
>>>> page did not answer this
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>>
>>>> Johanna
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Jim Manico < <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>>>> jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thats why we have a group of editors who all have appsec experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors>
>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/>https://www.owasp.org
>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 3:30 AM, johanna curiel curiel <
>>>>> <johanna.curiel at owasp.org>johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> there is a clarification needed of something as simple as who is
>>>>> now Responsible for the Wiki it's not the community it's not a member of
>>>>> the board it is Paul and his hired staff.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thx Tom. I did not know that and I believe neither did Timo.
>>>>>
>>>>> >This is not OWASP of 2004... There is a large amounts of funding
>>>>> spent on people hired to manage to policy and work per there job
>>>>> descriptions. Let's be careful to let them do just that.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do this staff knows what kind of content is relevant or not? I
>>>>> don't think that formula is working well right now. That content has not
>>>>> been properly updated since Sarah's Baso's was Executive director.
>>>>>
>>>>> *If I* was the content manager of this site, this was long time
>>>>> updated ;-P. If OWASP is already paying staff to do this then why is not
>>>>> updated? I think that the problem is that the staff is not familiar with
>>>>> the content so how can they change this content or know what is relevant?
>>>>>
>>>>> The actual content is very outdated and irrelevant to sec folks. Again
>>>>> I don't think paying another contractor without any know-how of the content
>>>>> will help clean the wiki properly and highlight relevant content.It will be
>>>>> a waste of money.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Johanna
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Tom Brennan <
>>>>> <tomb at proactiverisk.com>tomb at proactiverisk.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> there is a clarification needed of something as simple as who is now
>>>>>> Responsabile for the Wiki it's not the community it's not a member of the
>>>>>> board it is Paul and his hired staff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keep reading..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The operational business of the foundation is handled by Paul Richie
>>>>>> who was hired by the BoD.  reporting to him is a project coordinator job
>>>>>> focus:
>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/images/a/a1/OWASP_Project_Coordinator-FabioTobiasAug25.pdf>
>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/images/a/a1/OWASP_Project_Coordinator-FabioTobiasAug25.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and community manager
>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Jobs/Community_Manager>
>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Jobs/Community_Manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's pause an review the above job descriptions
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The volunteers who create/edit content as part of the community
>>>>>> should do so in step with the people who's paid job is to shepard reward
>>>>>> encourage and drive this.  Call it a committee task force wiki group what
>>>>>> ever.... But end of day there is now a chain of command and that starts
>>>>>> with the operations people that are measured on what they do and
>>>>>> compensated for it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul should be and I am sure is asking and getting feedback from the
>>>>>> employees/staff on how to approach this and ultimately it is his decisions
>>>>>> on the logistics of the operation.  If it works GREAT if it does not, try
>>>>>> try again
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is not OWASP of 2004... There is a large amounts of funding
>>>>>> spent on people hired to manage to policy and work per there job
>>>>>> descriptions. Let's be careful to let them do just that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Collaborate with them but don't step on over or around them. If there
>>>>>> is a problem escalate as a complaint if needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Plans (next 30 days)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Progress (accomplishments of last 30 days)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Problems (board meeting agenda item for vote that the staff can't
>>>>>> handle without guidance an a vote)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As simple as that we should be able to communicate what is going on
>>>>>> at OWASP
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMHO edit and redirect away, don't delete. It's a wiki
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 8:47 AM, johanna curiel curiel <
>>>>>> <johanna.curiel at owasp.org>johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think if you give Johanna and I delete rights on the wiki it would
>>>>>> do much more good as opposed to hiring somebody who is not familiar with
>>>>>> the content or the projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this becomes a project under our guidance(which I think unfamiliar
>>>>>> people to the content cannot provide) is essential
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Example
>>>>>> From the home page you get this link:
>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:How_To>
>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:How_To
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is very old stuff and there are more relevant content and
>>>>>> projects that promoting from the home page the "OWASP LiveCD
>>>>>> Education Project (SpoC 2007)" and "Webscarab" .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What we need is a *technical editor *to help us re-write and correct
>>>>>> the text. This way we can highlight relevant content and there is so
>>>>>> much but is not properly promoted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This whole section is really VERY outdated and irrelevant right now,
>>>>>> especially from the homepage
>>>>>> <Screenshot 2015-08-10 08.42.41.png>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With all due respect, you need to know the content in order to direct
>>>>>> users to relevant one. We know which is the relevant content(especially
>>>>>> people familiar with the latest and updated projects)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can make a plan of what will be clean up before deleting or doing
>>>>>> anything, but it's clear that without know-how of the content, hiring
>>>>>> someone will be not very efficient or effective in my opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Johanna
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Jim Manico < <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>>>>>> jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I support giving you both delete access so long as you send a note
>>>>>>> to the wiki editor list and just let us know what you are up to...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org>https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 9, 2015, at 11:21 PM, Timo Goosen < <timo.goosen at owasp.org>
>>>>>>> timo.goosen at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still feel that people on the project task force should have
>>>>>>> delete rights on the wiki.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If people want to see stuff for archiving purposes they can use
>>>>>>> archive.org to view the page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The owasp wiki looks sloppy at the moment and we should clean it up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think if you give Johanna and I delete rights on the wiki it would
>>>>>>> do much more good as opposed to hiring somebody who is not familiar with
>>>>>>> the content or the projects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>> Timo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Jim Manico < <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>>>>>>> jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  >There would need to be a category that replaces "FIXME" with
>>>>>>>> "Archived" or something similar for the archived page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is currently the "historical" flag.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [[Categorie:FIXME/historical]] out of date but archived for
>>>>>>>> historical context
>>>>>>>> Some content is good to save, some is just junk. The wiki-editors
>>>>>>>> group is set up to answer those questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors>
>>>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Aloha,
>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another issue I just thought of: If a page is simply archived it
>>>>>>>> will still show up in search. This is not a problem if the page redirects
>>>>>>>> to a newer or more relevant one. But could be if it is not clearly tagged
>>>>>>>> as an archived/outdated page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>> Community Manager
>>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 9, 2015, at 4:24 PM, Bev Corwin < <bev.corwin at owasp.org>
>>>>>>>> bev.corwin at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nice explanation Noreen, thank you, just curious, do you think that
>>>>>>>> it is important to reference the history details on the pages, or would the
>>>>>>>> automated history / changes tracking information be enough for anyone
>>>>>>>> looking for any archives?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Noreen Whysel <
>>>>>>>> <noreen.whysel at owasp.org>noreen.whysel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Redirects are simple. Add #REDIRECT [[:NewPage]] to the edit
>>>>>>>>> field and it will redirect to the new page. All the old page history is
>>>>>>>>> saved and viewed very easily by typing the URL,
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php?title=Old_Page_Title&action=history>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php?title=Old_Page_Title&action=history
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Owasp-board mailing listOwasp-board at lists.owasp.orghttps://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>>> OWASP Foundationhttps://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jim Manico
>>> Global Board Member
>>> OWASP Foundationhttps://www.owasp.org
>>> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Owasp-board mailing list
>>> Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Jim Manico
> Global Board Member
> OWASP Foundationhttps://www.owasp.org
> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>
>
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