[Owasp-board] For Discussion - Hourly contractor for wiki housekeeping

Jim Manico jim.manico at owasp.org
Mon Aug 10 20:52:44 UTC 2015


 > Do you all think we should have an open call scheduled for people 
intrested in the wiki editing team (and refresher for those already on 
it) to walk them through how to edit the wiki and the FIXME process?

Please, I should have been doing more of this the past few months - I'll 
take any help to spread awareness of the wiki editor team. Thanks!

 > I am also planning to add a session on wiki editing to the Chapter 
Leaders Workshop.

I'm a wiki ninja, I'd be glad to help with this. :)

Aloha
Jim


On 8/10/15 10:51 AM, Noreen Whysel wrote:
> I am also planning to add a session on wiki editing to the Chapter 
> Leaders Workshop. I could turn that into a training for the wiki 
> editing team. I created a course for the NYC Hackathon earlier this 
> year but it was more about AppSec in Wikipedia instead of just the 
> owasp.org <http://owasp.org> website.
>
> Noreen Whysel
> Community Manager
> OWASP Foundation
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Noreen Whysel 
> <noreen.whysel at owasp.org <mailto:noreen.whysel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>     Do you all think we should have an open call scheduled for people
>     intrested in the wiki editing team (and refresher for those
>     already on it) to walk them through how to edit the wiki and the
>     FIXME process?
>
>     Noreen Whysel
>     Community Manager
>     OWASP Foundation
>
>     On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org
>     <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>         I lead the editors team and have admin wiki access myself.
>
>         An I'm sorry if this is a hassle - I am happy to work with you
>         to streamline this or give you elevated access once we get
>         rolling.
>
>         Aloha,
>         Jim
>
>
>
>         On 8/10/15 10:24 AM, johanna curiel curiel wrote:
>>         Hi Jim
>>
>>         I know you are very active ;-), I just wanted some
>>         clarifications.
>>
>>         I was not sure if the the wiki editors had complete access as
>>         admin to the wiki.
>>
>>         I will highlight the content, provide more relevant links to
>>         link from the Home page and let you know when ready.
>>
>>         I'll continue on the wiki editors mailing list.
>>
>>         regards
>>
>>         Johanna
>>
>>         On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Jim Manico
>>         <jim.manico at owasp.org <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>             If you email the list it will get done shortly
>>             thereafter. Or even if you get delete access and delete
>>             yourself - just let us know.
>>
>>             Johanna, I'm an active member and when I say I do
>>             something I do it. I hope that has been your experience
>>             with me over the past few years.
>>
>>             I will not let you down. Please do not let this get in
>>             the way of doing good work. We have your back and want to
>>             help.
>>
>>             Aloha,
>>             --
>>             Jim Manico
>>             Global Board Member
>>             OWASP Foundation
>>             https://www.owasp.org <https://www.owasp.org/>
>>             Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>
>>             On Aug 10, 2015, at 10:07 AM, johanna curiel curiel
>>             <johanna.curiel at owasp.org
>>             <mailto:johanna.curiel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>>             Hi Jim
>>>
>>>             If I take the time to highlight the irrelevant content
>>>             and provide a link to which one must go, who has access
>>>             and who will do the changes?
>>>
>>>             I just hate to do a lot of work and nothing later
>>>             happens...or would the wiki editors provide me to access
>>>             to change this directly? How do the wiki editors
>>>             actually work? Do volunteers just label things (with
>>>             FIXME).
>>>
>>>             I would like more clarification on this part since the
>>>             wiki editors page did not answer this
>>>
>>>             regards
>>>
>>>             Johanna
>>>
>>>             On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Jim Manico
>>>             <jim.manico at owasp.org <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Thats why we have a group of editors who all have
>>>                 appsec experience.
>>>
>>>                 https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors
>>>
>>>                 --
>>>                 Jim Manico
>>>                 Global Board Member
>>>                 OWASP Foundation
>>>                 https://www.owasp.org <https://www.owasp.org/>
>>>                 Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>
>>>                 On Aug 10, 2015, at 3:30 AM, johanna curiel curiel
>>>                 <johanna.curiel at owasp.org
>>>                 <mailto:johanna.curiel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>                 there is a clarification needed of something as
>>>>                 simple as who is now Responsible for the Wiki it's
>>>>                 not the community it's not a member of the board it
>>>>                 is Paul and his hired staff.
>>>>
>>>>                 Thx Tom. I did not know that and I believe neither
>>>>                 did Timo.
>>>>
>>>>                 >This is not OWASP of 2004... There is a large amounts
>>>>                 of funding spent on people hired to manage to
>>>>                 policy and work per there job descriptions. Let's
>>>>                 be careful to let them do just that.
>>>>
>>>>                 How do this staff knows what kind of content is
>>>>                 relevant or not? I don't think that formula is
>>>>                 working well right now. That content has not been
>>>>                 properly updated since Sarah's Baso's was Executive
>>>>                 director.
>>>>
>>>>                 /If I/ was the content manager of this site, this
>>>>                 was long time updated ;-P. If OWASP is already
>>>>                 paying staff to do this then why is not updated? I
>>>>                 think that the problem is that the staff is not
>>>>                 familiar with the content so how can they change
>>>>                 this content or know what is relevant?
>>>>
>>>>                 The actual content is very outdated and irrelevant
>>>>                 to sec folks. Again I don't think paying another
>>>>                 contractor without any know-how of the content will
>>>>                 help clean the wiki properly and highlight relevant
>>>>                 content.It will be a waste of money.
>>>>
>>>>                 Regards
>>>>
>>>>                 Johanna
>>>>
>>>>                 On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Tom Brennan
>>>>                 <tomb at proactiverisk.com
>>>>                 <mailto:tomb at proactiverisk.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                     there is a clarification needed of something as
>>>>                     simple as who is now Responsabile for the Wiki
>>>>                     it's not the community it's not a member of the
>>>>                     board it is Paul and his hired staff.
>>>>
>>>>                     Keep reading..
>>>>
>>>>                     The operational business of the foundation is
>>>>                     handled by Paul Richie who was hired by the
>>>>                     BoD.  reporting to him is a project coordinator
>>>>                     job focus:
>>>>                     https://www.owasp.org/images/a/a1/OWASP_Project_Coordinator-FabioTobiasAug25.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                     and community manager
>>>>                     https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Jobs/Community_Manager
>>>>
>>>>                     Let's pause an review the above job descriptions
>>>>
>>>>                     The volunteers who create/edit content as part
>>>>                     of the community should do so in step with the
>>>>                     people who's paid job is to shepard reward
>>>>                     encourage and drive this. Call it a committee
>>>>                     task force wiki group what ever.... But end of
>>>>                     day there is now a chain of command and that
>>>>                     starts with the operations people that are
>>>>                     measured on what they do and compensated for it.
>>>>
>>>>                     Paul should be and I am sure is asking and
>>>>                     getting feedback from the employees/staff on
>>>>                     how to approach this and ultimately it is his
>>>>                     decisions on the logistics of the operation. 
>>>>                     If it works GREAT if it does not, try try again
>>>>
>>>>                     This is not OWASP of 2004... There is a large
>>>>                     amounts of funding spent on people hired to
>>>>                     manage to policy and work per there job
>>>>                     descriptions. Let's be careful to let them do
>>>>                     just that.
>>>>
>>>>                     Collaborate with them but don't step on over or
>>>>                     around them. If there is a problem escalate as
>>>>                     a complaint if needed.
>>>>
>>>>                     Plans (next 30 days)
>>>>
>>>>                     Progress (accomplishments of last 30 days)
>>>>
>>>>                     Problems (board meeting agenda item for vote
>>>>                     that the staff can't handle without guidance an
>>>>                     a vote)
>>>>
>>>>                     As simple as that we should be able to
>>>>                     communicate what is going on at OWASP
>>>>
>>>>                     IMHO edit and redirect away, don't delete. It's
>>>>                     a wiki
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                     On Aug 10, 2015, at 8:47 AM, johanna curiel
>>>>                     curiel <johanna.curiel at owasp.org
>>>>                     <mailto:johanna.curiel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>                     I think if you give Johanna and I delete
>>>>>                     rights on the wiki it would do much more good
>>>>>                     as opposed to hiring somebody who is not
>>>>>                     familiar with the content or the projects.
>>>>>
>>>>>                     If this becomes a project under our
>>>>>                     guidance(which I think unfamiliar people to
>>>>>                     the content cannot provide) is essential
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Example
>>>>>                     From the home page you get this link:
>>>>>                     https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:How_To
>>>>>
>>>>>                     This is very old stuff and there are more
>>>>>                     relevant content and projects that promoting
>>>>>                     from the home page the "OWASP LiveCD Education
>>>>>                     Project (SpoC 2007)" and "Webscarab" .
>>>>>
>>>>>                     What we need is a _technical editor _to help
>>>>>                     us re-write and correct the text. This way we
>>>>>                     can highlight relevant content and there is so
>>>>>                     much but is not properly promoted.
>>>>>
>>>>>                     This whole section is really VERY outdated and
>>>>>                     irrelevant right now, especially from the homepage
>>>>>                     <Screenshot 2015-08-10 08.42.41.png>
>>>>>
>>>>>                     With all due respect, you need to know the
>>>>>                     content in order to direct users to relevant
>>>>>                     one. We know which is the relevant
>>>>>                     content(especially people familiar with the
>>>>>                     latest and updated projects)
>>>>>
>>>>>                     We can make a plan of what will be clean up
>>>>>                     before deleting or doing anything, but it's
>>>>>                     clear that without know-how of the content,
>>>>>                     hiring someone will be not very efficient or
>>>>>                     effective in my opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>>                     regards
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Johanna
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                     On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Jim Manico
>>>>>                     <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>>>>                     <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                         I support giving you both delete access so
>>>>>                         long as you send a note to the wiki editor
>>>>>                         list and just let us know what you are up
>>>>>                         to...
>>>>>
>>>>>                         --
>>>>>                         Jim Manico
>>>>>                         Global Board Member
>>>>>                         OWASP Foundation
>>>>>                         https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>                         Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>>                         <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>
>>>>>                         On Aug 9, 2015, at 11:21 PM, Timo Goosen
>>>>>                         <timo.goosen at owasp.org
>>>>>                         <mailto:timo.goosen at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>                         I still feel that people on the project
>>>>>>                         task force should have delete rights on
>>>>>>                         the wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         If people want to see stuff for archiving
>>>>>>                         purposes they can use archive.org
>>>>>>                         <http://archive.org> to view the page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         The owasp wiki looks sloppy at the moment
>>>>>>                         and we should clean it up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         I think if you give Johanna and I delete
>>>>>>                         rights on the wiki it would do much more
>>>>>>                         good as opposed to hiring somebody who is
>>>>>>                         not familiar with the content or the
>>>>>>                         projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Regards.
>>>>>>                         Timo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Jim
>>>>>>                         Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>>>>>                         <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                              >There would need to be a category
>>>>>>                             that replaces "FIXME" with "Archived"
>>>>>>                             or something similar for the archived
>>>>>>                             page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             That is currently the "historical" flag.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             |[[Categorie:FIXME/historical]]| 	out
>>>>>>                             of date but archived for historical
>>>>>>                             context
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             Some content is good to save, some is
>>>>>>                             just junk. The wiki-editors group is
>>>>>>                             set up to answer those questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             Aloha,
>>>>>>                             Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             Another issue I just thought of: If
>>>>>>>                             a page is simply archived it will
>>>>>>>                             still show up in search. This is not
>>>>>>>                             a problem if the page redirects to a
>>>>>>>                             newer or more relevant one. But
>>>>>>>                             could be if it is not clearly tagged
>>>>>>>                             as an archived/outdated page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>                             Community Manager
>>>>>>>                             OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             On Aug 9, 2015, at 4:24 PM, Bev
>>>>>>>                             Corwin <bev.corwin at owasp.org
>>>>>>>                             <mailto:bev.corwin at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             Nice explanation Noreen, thank you,
>>>>>>>>                             just curious, do you think that it
>>>>>>>>                             is important to reference the
>>>>>>>>                             history details on the pages, or
>>>>>>>>                             would the automated history /
>>>>>>>>                             changes tracking information be
>>>>>>>>                             enough for anyone looking for any
>>>>>>>>                             archives?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             Bev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 2:38 PM,
>>>>>>>>                             Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>>                             <noreen.whysel at owasp.org
>>>>>>>>                             <mailto:noreen.whysel at owasp.org>>
>>>>>>>>                             wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                                 Redirects are simple. Add
>>>>>>>>                                 #REDIRECT [[:NewPage]] to the
>>>>>>>>                                 edit field and it will redirect
>>>>>>>>                                 to the new page. All the old
>>>>>>>>                                 page history is saved and
>>>>>>>>                                 viewed very easily by typing
>>>>>>>>                                 the URL,
>>>>>>>>                                 https://www.owasp.org/index.php?title=Old_Page_Title&action=history.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>                             Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>>                             Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>>                             <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>>>>                             https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             -- 
>>>>>>                             Jim Manico
>>>>>>                             Global Board Member
>>>>>>                             OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>                             https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>                             Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                             Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>>                             Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>>                             <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>>>                             https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                         _______________________________________________
>>>>>                         Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>                         Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>                         <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>>                         https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                     _______________________________________________
>>>>>                     Owasp-board mailing list
>>>>>                     Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org
>>>>>                     <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>>>>>                     https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>         -- 
>         Jim Manico
>         Global Board Member
>         OWASP Foundation
>         https://www.owasp.org
>         Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Owasp-board mailing list
>         Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org <mailto:Owasp-board at lists.owasp.org>
>         https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-board
>
>
>

-- 
Jim Manico
Global Board Member
OWASP Foundation
https://www.owasp.org
Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!

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