[Owasp-board] For Discussion - Hourly contractor for wiki housekeeping

Bev Corwin bev.corwin at owasp.org
Sun Aug 9 20:46:02 UTC 2015


Sounds good Jim, I agree that more volunteers and more staff time would
help, and happy to spread the word. Thank you everyone. Best wishes, Bev

On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:

> Bev,
>
> I am hoping that two things will happen...
>
> 1) Either more volunteers will jump in and help with "Wiki
> Curator/Editing" activities.
> 2) Volunteers will be more away of this team and send comments about
> out-of-date wiki issues to us.
>
> Please spread the word on these efforts - I'll do the same on Monday.
>
> Michael Coates : Thank you for bringing this up and I 100% agree a full
> time effort is very much prudent.
>
> Aloha,
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> On 8/9/15 10:27 AM, Bev Corwin wrote:
>
> +1 and offer suggestions for improvements, working with the wiki team, to
> optimize efforts, as well.
>
> Bev
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>
>> Yep, I agree. Redirect over delete is standard operating procedure to
>> preserve search engine links and similar. However, for "junk pages" with no
>> content and nothing to preserve (and there are plenty of these) delete
>> suggestions are best. Here is the full list of categories we have been
>> working with.
>>
>> Following mediawiki categories are uses to tag pages [[Categorie:FIXME]]
>> [[Categorie:FIXME/delete‏‎]] recommended for permanent deletion
>> [[Categorie:FIXME/design]] recommended for good content that needs to be
>> redesigned to look better [[Categorie:FIXME/general]]
>> [[Categorie:FIXME/historical]] out of date but archived for historical
>> context [[Categorie:FIXME/inactiveDraft]] draft content that was never
>> finished [[Categorie:FIXME/merge]] duplicate content that needs to be
>> merged with another doc [[Categorie:FIXME/old]] old content that needs
>> updating [[Categorie:FIXME/partialOld‏‎]] old content that needs updating [[Categorie:FIXME/pls
>> review]] recently updated, requesting review
>> [[Categorie:FIXME/reviewed‏‎]]
>> [[Categorie:FIXME/reviewed/2014‏‎]] recommended when good content has
>> been reviewed that needs no changes [[Categorie:FIXME/reviewed/2015]] recommended
>> when good content has been reviewed that needs no changes
>> [[Categorie:FIXME/reviewed/2016‏‎]] recommended when good content has
>> been reviewed that needs no changes [[Categorie:FIXME/silentMode]]
>>
>> I hope that if we do hire someone to work on the wiki that they leverage
>> and start from the current efforts.
>>
>> Aloha,
>> --
>> Jim Manico
>> Global Board Member
>> OWASP Foundation
>> https://www.owasp.org
>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>
>> On Aug 9, 2015, at 8:38 AM, Noreen Whysel < <noreen.whysel at owasp.org>
>> noreen.whysel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with Matt on this. A redirect will preserve the historical
>> context of a page which is important even if the content is ultimately
>> deemed outdated or no longer needed. At some time a project was created and
>> it was important to that team. For whatever reason it died. From an
>> archiving perspective, preserving it shows what members of the Foundation
>> were working on at a given time. Also, there may be a time in the future,
>> when someone wants to revive it or use some of the information and tools
>> developed on that project for a new one. It would be a shame to lose that
>> work.
>>
>> Redirects are simple. Add #REDIRECT [[:NewPage]] to the edit field and
>> it will redirect to the new page. All the old page history is saved and
>> viewed very easily by typing the URL,
>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php?title=Old_Page_Title&action=history>
>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php?title=Old_Page_Title&action=history.
>>
>> The only time I have ever considered deleting a page was when I created
>> one and decided I needed it to have a different page name. Unfortunately
>> changing a page name is not allowed.
>>
>> Noreen Whysel
>> Community Manager
>> OWASP Foundation
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 3:09 PM, Matt Tesauro <matt.tesauro at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>> FYI:  My understanding of the general use of Wikis is that deletion is
>> the 'nuclear' option and only be used very sparingly.  I tend to use
>> redirects rather then deletions so that any inward links find useful
>> content.  I'd suggest that as a general strategy over deleting a page since
>> it preserves the history of the older page, is easier to do then deletions
>> and can be undone in future should needs change.
>>
>> The last time I did a page deletion was several years ago where there was
>> something accidentally posted to the wiki which raised privacy issues for
>> the particular country where those members lived.  To be honest, you work
>> against the wiki software when you do a deletion quite by design.
>>
>> For empty or never updated default project pages, I'd simply redirect
>> those to the main project page on the wiki.  I think we will do ourselves a
>> favor to keep inbound links working even if they redirect to other related
>> content.  If someone is coming to the wiki, it is presumably to find some
>> content so providing related content via a  redirect is preferable to a
>> 'this page has been deleted' or an empty 'edit me' page in my opinion.
>>
>> HTH.
>>
>> --
>> -- Matt Tesauro
>> OWASP WTE Project Lead
>> http://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:OWASP_Live_CD_Project
>> http://AppSecLive.org - Community and Download site
>> OWASP OpenStack Security Project Lead
>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_OpenStack_Security_Project
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 8:56 AM, johanna curiel curiel <
>> <johanna.curiel at owasp.org>johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> One of those FIXME is about WebScarab which I do not agree
>>>
>>> WebScarab is still in use and should not be deleted. I would like to
>>> classify that content as 'Low Activity' or Inactive, especially for
>>> valuable content projects but not actively maintained.
>>>
>>> @Noreen: I can create categories but I cannot delete wiki pages that
>>> have been created. You must be an admin:
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_delete_a_page>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_delete_a_page
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Johanna
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Noreen Whysel <
>>> <noreen.whysel at owasp.org>noreen.whysel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Johanna,
>>>>
>>>> Have you tried creating a new category? Type
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:new-category-name>
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:new-category-name and see if
>>>> it lets you edit the new category page. BTW, the wiki seems to be extremely
>>>> slow today.
>>>>
>>>> Are you able to view the Special Pages for Categories? If not you may
>>>> not have a high enough user setting. It doesn't seem that all the
>>>> categories are protected pages, but I am not sure.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Special:Categories>
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Special:Categories
>>>>
>>>> There are also category tracking functions built into Mediawiki. None
>>>> of the pages appear to be populated, which could just mean there are no
>>>> pages using these tags or having the tracked problems.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Special:TrackingCategories>
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Special:TrackingCategories
>>>>
>>>> Timo, There is a FIXME category tag for FIXME/delete and another for
>>>> candidate for deletion that I believe people had been using to recommend
>>>> pages to delete. You can see all the FIXME categories on the Category:FIXME
>>>> page. I think Matt Tesauro is the only person who has deletion rights, but
>>>> he may know if there are others.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME>
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME/delete>
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME/delete
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:CandidateForDeletion>
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:CandidateForDeletion
>>>>
>>>> Noreen Whysel
>>>> Community Manager
>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Timo Goosen < <timo.goosen at owasp.org>
>>>> timo.goosen at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If I had ability to delete useless pages off the wiki, then a
>>>>> significant cleanup would be done from my side.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would also like to hear answers to Johanna's questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>> Timo
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 2:55 PM, johanna curiel curiel <
>>>>> <johanna.curiel at owasp.org>johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Board
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding your action to hire a contractor and a technical editor to
>>>>>> clean up the wiki
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you know many of the pages are indeed project pages
>>>>>> I have asked multiple times access to clean up the category section
>>>>>> which I do not have access to.But no anwer has been provided clearly on how
>>>>>> to do this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will this potential contractor(s) handle content related to wiki
>>>>>> pages projects?
>>>>>> Have you though about who will manage these actions , since in my
>>>>>> opinion,  an external party will not know which content to clean and which
>>>>>> not?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to hear your thoughts about this and if you have
>>>>>> consider the Project task force team to get involved in this action
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My biggest concern is that you hire someone that has no idea about
>>>>>> the content, So how will this person be able to clean up something properly
>>>>>> or not? And to create relevant content?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Johanna
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Jim Manico < <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>>>>>> jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/>https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 5, 2015, at 7:09 AM, Matt Konda < <matt.konda at owasp.org>
>>>>>>> matt.konda at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Should we aim bigger and make this part of a contract tech writer's
>>>>>>> responsibilities?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matt Konda
>>>>>>> @mkonda
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 5, 2015, at 4:32 AM, Fabio Cerullo < <fcerullo at owasp.org>
>>>>>>> fcerullo at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I support the idea on getting some professional help for the wiki.
>>>>>>> Maybe we could allocate a small budget to start with?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it possible to come up with a list of pages that need maintenance
>>>>>>> based on the Wiki categorisation below?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fabio Cerullo
>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org>https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015 <https://2015.appsecusa.org> in
>>>>>>> San Francisco!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4 Aug 2015, at 19:34, Jim Manico < <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>>>>>>> jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > But, we need a bit more focus. Let's pay a few bucks and just get
>>>>>>> some dedicated time on it for awhile.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +1 I think this is an important idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/>https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 4, 2015, at 7:52 AM, Michael Coates <
>>>>>>> <michael.coates at owasp.org>michael.coates at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All great thing and I'd want to use the systems we have in place for
>>>>>>> sure. My comment/idea is that we've tried to do this from a volunteer angle
>>>>>>> for many years. Loe their effort and what they've done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, we need a bit more focus. Let's pay a few bucks and just get
>>>>>>> some dedicated time on it for awhile.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Michael Coates | @_mwc
>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=_mwc>
>>>>>>> OWASP Global Board
>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015 in San Francisco!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Noreen Whysel OWASP <
>>>>>>> <noreen.whysel at owasp.org>noreen.whysel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is a category called FIXME that the wiki editing project uses
>>>>>>>> to tag content that have errors. I do not know how active that team is at
>>>>>>>> the moment but we can use these tags to label pages with errors. It would
>>>>>>>> be good to start with labeling tools we already have in place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would actually be happy to run an editathon at AppSecUSA as part
>>>>>>>> of my chapter leader workshop. I was hoping to find members of the wiki
>>>>>>>> editing team to help out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME>
>>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>> Community Manager
>>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 4, 2015, at 1:26 PM, Michael Coates <
>>>>>>>> <michael.coates at owasp.org>michael.coates at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Board,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Added as a board meeting topic (if necessary). Circulating for
>>>>>>>> comment via email.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Try as we might, we just haven't had enough volunteer focus on wiki
>>>>>>>> upkeep. Wouldn't it be great to part with a few hundred dollars a month and
>>>>>>>> have a wiki that is organized with tagging that indicates "hot content" or
>>>>>>>> content that needs updating? That plus normal clean up of dead links,
>>>>>>>> duplicate page flagging etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a minuscule amount of funds towards the overall budget and
>>>>>>>> would sure help with the delivery of information to the world. Would also
>>>>>>>> help with volunteer engagement since they'd know what content needs
>>>>>>>> attention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Michael Coates | @_mwc
>>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=_mwc>
>>>>>>>> OWASP Global Board
>>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015 in San Francisco!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>
> --
> Jim Manico
> Global Board Member
> OWASP Foundationhttps://www.owasp.org
> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>
>
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