[Owasp-board] For Discussion - Hourly contractor for wiki housekeeping

Jim Manico jim.manico at owasp.org
Sun Aug 9 20:42:44 UTC 2015


Bev,

I am hoping that two things will happen...

1) Either more volunteers will jump in and help with "Wiki 
Curator/Editing" activities.
2) Volunteers will be more away of this team and send comments about 
out-of-date wiki issues to us.

Please spread the word on these efforts - I'll do the same on Monday.

Michael Coates : Thank you for bringing this up and I 100% agree a full 
time effort is very much prudent.

Aloha,
Jim



On 8/9/15 10:27 AM, Bev Corwin wrote:
> +1 and offer suggestions for improvements, working with the wiki team, 
> to optimize efforts, as well.
>
> Bev
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org 
> <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>     Yep, I agree. Redirect over delete is standard operating procedure
>     to preserve search engine links and similar. However, for "junk
>     pages" with no content and nothing to preserve (and there are
>     plenty of these) delete suggestions are best. Here is the full
>     list of categories we have been working with.
>
>         Following mediawiki categories are uses to tag
>         pages|[[Categorie:FIXME]]| 	
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/delete‏‎]]| 	recommended for permanent
>         deletion
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/design]]| 	recommended for good content
>         that needs to be redesigned to look better
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/general]]| 	
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/historical]]| 	out of date but archived for
>         historical context
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/inactiveDraft]]| 	draft content that was
>         never finished
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/merge]]| 	duplicate content that needs to
>         be merged with another doc
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/old]]| 	old content that needs updating
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/partialOld‏‎]]| 	old content that needs
>         updating
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/pls review]]| 	recently updated, requesting
>         review
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/reviewed‏‎]]| 	
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/reviewed/2014‏‎]]| 	recommended when good
>         content has been reviewed that needs no changes
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/reviewed/2015]]| 	recommended when good
>         content has been reviewed that needs no changes
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/reviewed/2016‏‎]]| 	recommended when good
>         content has been reviewed that needs no changes
>         |[[Categorie:FIXME/silentMode]]| 	
>
>
>     I hope that if we do hire someone to work on the wiki that they
>     leverage and start from the current efforts.
>
>     Aloha,
>     --
>     Jim Manico
>     Global Board Member
>     OWASP Foundation
>     https://www.owasp.org <https://www.owasp.org/>
>     Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>
>     On Aug 9, 2015, at 8:38 AM, Noreen Whysel <noreen.whysel at owasp.org
>     <mailto:noreen.whysel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>
>>     I agree with Matt on this. A redirect will preserve the
>>     historical context of a page which is important even if the
>>     content is ultimately deemed outdated or no longer needed. At
>>     some time a project was created and it was important to that
>>     team. For whatever reason it died. From an archiving perspective,
>>     preserving it shows what members of the Foundation were working
>>     on at a given time. Also, there may be a time in the future, when
>>     someone wants to revive it or use some of the information and
>>     tools developed on that project for a new one. It would be a
>>     shame to lose that work.
>>
>>     Redirects are simple. Add #REDIRECT [[:NewPage]] to the edit
>>     field and it will redirect to the new page. All the old page
>>     history is saved and viewed very easily by typing the URL,
>>     https://www.owasp.org/index.php?title=Old_Page_Title&action=history.
>>
>>     The only time I have ever considered deleting a page was when I
>>     created one and decided I needed it to have a different page
>>     name. Unfortunately changing a page name is not allowed.
>>
>>     Noreen Whysel
>>     Community Manager
>>     OWASP Foundation
>>
>>     On Aug 8, 2015, at 3:09 PM, Matt Tesauro <matt.tesauro at owasp.org
>>     <mailto:matt.tesauro at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>
>>>     FYI:  My understanding of the general use of Wikis is that
>>>     deletion is the 'nuclear' option and only be used very
>>>     sparingly.  I tend to use redirects rather then deletions so
>>>     that any inward links find useful content.  I'd suggest that as
>>>     a general strategy over deleting a page since it preserves the
>>>     history of the older page, is easier to do then deletions and
>>>     can be undone in future should needs change.
>>>
>>>     The last time I did a page deletion was several years ago where
>>>     there was something accidentally posted to the wiki which raised
>>>     privacy issues for the particular country where those members
>>>     lived.  To be honest, you work against the wiki software when
>>>     you do a deletion quite by design.
>>>
>>>     For empty or never updated default project pages, I'd simply
>>>     redirect those to the main project page on the wiki.  I think we
>>>     will do ourselves a favor to keep inbound links working even if
>>>     they redirect to other related content.  If someone is coming to
>>>     the wiki, it is presumably to find some content so providing
>>>     related content via a  redirect is preferable to a 'this page
>>>     has been deleted' or an empty 'edit me' page in my opinion.
>>>
>>>     HTH.
>>>
>>>     --
>>>     -- Matt Tesauro
>>>     OWASP WTE Project Lead
>>>     http://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:OWASP_Live_CD_Project
>>>     http://AppSecLive.org - Community and Download site
>>>     OWASP OpenStack Security Project Lead
>>>     https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_OpenStack_Security_Project
>>>
>>>     On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 8:56 AM, johanna curiel curiel
>>>     <johanna.curiel at owasp.org <mailto:johanna.curiel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         One of those FIXME is about WebScarab which I do not agree
>>>
>>>         WebScarab is still in use and should not be deleted. I would
>>>         like to classify that content as 'Low Activity' or Inactive,
>>>         especially for valuable content projects but not actively
>>>         maintained.
>>>
>>>         @Noreen: I can create categories but I cannot delete wiki
>>>         pages that have been created. You must be an
>>>         admin:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_delete_a_page
>>>
>>>         Regards
>>>
>>>         Johanna
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Noreen Whysel
>>>         <noreen.whysel at owasp.org <mailto:noreen.whysel at owasp.org>>
>>>         wrote:
>>>
>>>             Johanna,
>>>
>>>             Have you tried creating a new category? Type
>>>             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:new-category-name
>>>             and see if it lets you edit the new category page. BTW,
>>>             the wiki seems to be extremely slow today.
>>>
>>>             Are you able to view the Special Pages for Categories?
>>>             If not you may not have a high enough user setting. It
>>>             doesn't seem that all the categories are protected
>>>             pages, but I am not sure.
>>>
>>>             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Special:Categories
>>>
>>>             There are also category tracking functions built into
>>>             Mediawiki. None of the pages appear to be populated,
>>>             which could just mean there are no pages using these
>>>             tags or having the tracked problems.
>>>
>>>             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Special:TrackingCategories
>>>
>>>             Timo, There is a FIXME category tag for FIXME/delete and
>>>             another for candidate for deletion that I believe people
>>>             had been using to recommend pages to delete. You can see
>>>             all the FIXME categories on the Category:FIXME page. I
>>>             think Matt Tesauro is the only person who has deletion
>>>             rights, but he may know if there are others.
>>>
>>>             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME
>>>             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME/delete
>>>             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:CandidateForDeletion
>>>
>>>             Noreen Whysel
>>>             Community Manager
>>>             OWASP Foundation
>>>
>>>             On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Timo Goosen
>>>             <timo.goosen at owasp.org <mailto:timo.goosen at owasp.org>>
>>>             wrote:
>>>
>>>                 If I had ability to delete useless pages off the
>>>                 wiki, then a significant cleanup would be done from
>>>                 my side.
>>>
>>>                 I would also like to hear answers to Johanna's
>>>                 questions.
>>>
>>>                 Regards.
>>>                 Timo
>>>
>>>                 On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 2:55 PM, johanna curiel
>>>                 curiel <johanna.curiel at owasp.org
>>>                 <mailto:johanna.curiel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                     Hi Board
>>>
>>>                     Regarding your action to hire a contractor and a
>>>                     technical editor to clean up the wiki
>>>
>>>                     As you know many of the pages are indeed project
>>>                     pages
>>>                     I have asked multiple times access to clean up
>>>                     the category section which I do not have access
>>>                     to.But no anwer has been provided clearly on how
>>>                     to do this.
>>>
>>>                     Will this potential contractor(s) handle content
>>>                     related to wiki pages projects?
>>>                     Have you though about who will manage these
>>>                     actions , since in my opinion,  an external
>>>                     party will not know which content to clean and
>>>                     which not?
>>>
>>>                     I would like to hear your thoughts about this
>>>                     and if you have consider the Project task force
>>>                     team to get involved in this action
>>>
>>>                     My biggest concern is that you hire someone that
>>>                     has no idea about the content, So how will this
>>>                     person be able to clean up something properly or
>>>                     not? And to create relevant content?
>>>
>>>                     Regards
>>>
>>>                     Johanna
>>>
>>>                     On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Jim Manico
>>>                     <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>>                     <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                         +1
>>>
>>>                         --
>>>                         Jim Manico
>>>                         Global Board Member
>>>                         OWASP Foundation
>>>                         https://www.owasp.org <https://www.owasp.org/>
>>>                         Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>                         <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>
>>>                         On Aug 5, 2015, at 7:09 AM, Matt Konda
>>>                         <matt.konda at owasp.org
>>>                         <mailto:matt.konda at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>                         Should we aim bigger and make this part of
>>>>                         a contract tech writer's responsibilities?
>>>>
>>>>                         Matt Konda
>>>>                         @mkonda
>>>>
>>>>                         On Aug 5, 2015, at 4:32 AM, Fabio Cerullo
>>>>                         <fcerullo at owasp.org
>>>>                         <mailto:fcerullo at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>                         I support the idea on getting some
>>>>>                         professional help for the wiki. Maybe we
>>>>>                         could allocate a small budget to start with?
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Is it possible to come up with a list of
>>>>>                         pages that need maintenance based on the
>>>>>                         Wiki categorisation below?
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Fabio Cerullo
>>>>>                         Global Board Member
>>>>>                         OWASP Foundation
>>>>>                         https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>                         Join me at AppSecUSA 2015
>>>>>                         <https://2015.appsecusa.org> in San Francisco!
>>>>>
>>>>>>                         On 4 Aug 2015, at 19:34, Jim Manico
>>>>>>                         <jim.manico at owasp.org
>>>>>>                         <mailto:jim.manico at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         > But, we need a bit more focus. Let's
>>>>>>                         pay a few bucks and just get some
>>>>>>                         dedicated time on it for awhile.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         +1 I think this is an important idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         --
>>>>>>                         Jim Manico
>>>>>>                         Global Board Member
>>>>>>                         OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>                         https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>                         <https://www.owasp.org/>
>>>>>>                         Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>>>                         <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         On Aug 4, 2015, at 7:52 AM, Michael
>>>>>>                         Coates <michael.coates at owasp.org
>>>>>>                         <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         All great thing and I'd want to use the
>>>>>>>                         systems we have in place for sure. My
>>>>>>>                         comment/idea is that we've tried to do
>>>>>>>                         this from a volunteer angle for many
>>>>>>>                         years. Loe their effort and what they've
>>>>>>>                         done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         But, we need a bit more focus. Let's pay
>>>>>>>                         a few bucks and just get some dedicated
>>>>>>>                         time on it for awhile.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         --
>>>>>>>                         Michael Coates | @_mwc
>>>>>>>                         <https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=_mwc>
>>>>>>>                         OWASP Global Board
>>>>>>>                         Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>>>>                         <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015 in San
>>>>>>>                         Francisco!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                         On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Noreen
>>>>>>>                         Whysel OWASP <noreen.whysel at owasp.org
>>>>>>>                         <mailto:noreen.whysel at owasp.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             Michael,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             There is a category called FIXME
>>>>>>>                             that the wiki editing project uses
>>>>>>>                             to tag content that have errors. I
>>>>>>>                             do not know how active that team is
>>>>>>>                             at the moment but we can use these
>>>>>>>                             tags to label pages with errors. It
>>>>>>>                             would be good to start with labeling
>>>>>>>                             tools we already have in place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             I would actually be happy to run an
>>>>>>>                             editathon at AppSecUSA as part of my
>>>>>>>                             chapter leader workshop. I was
>>>>>>>                             hoping to find members of the wiki
>>>>>>>                             editing team to help out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>                             Community Manager
>>>>>>>                             OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                             On Aug 4, 2015, at 1:26 PM, Michael
>>>>>>>                             Coates <michael.coates at owasp.org
>>>>>>>                             <mailto:michael.coates at owasp.org>>
>>>>>>>                             wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             Board,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             Added as a board meeting topic (if
>>>>>>>>                             necessary). Circulating for comment
>>>>>>>>                             via email.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             Try as we might, we just haven't
>>>>>>>>                             had enough volunteer focus on wiki
>>>>>>>>                             upkeep. Wouldn't it be great to
>>>>>>>>                             part with a few hundred dollars a
>>>>>>>>                             month and have a wiki that is
>>>>>>>>                             organized with tagging that
>>>>>>>>                             indicates "hot content" or content
>>>>>>>>                             that needs updating? That plus
>>>>>>>>                             normal clean up of dead links,
>>>>>>>>                             duplicate page flagging etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             This is a minuscule amount of funds
>>>>>>>>                             towards the overall budget and
>>>>>>>>                             would sure help with the delivery
>>>>>>>>                             of information to the world. Would
>>>>>>>>                             also help with volunteer engagement
>>>>>>>>                             since they'd know what content
>>>>>>>>                             needs attention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                             --
>>>>>>>>                             Michael Coates | @_mwc
>>>>>>>>                             <https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=_mwc>
>>>>>>>>                             OWASP Global Board
>>>>>>>>                             Join me at AppSecUSA
>>>>>>>>                             <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015 in San
>>>>>>>>                             Francisco!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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-- 
Jim Manico
Global Board Member
OWASP Foundation
https://www.owasp.org
Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!

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