[Owasp-board] For Discussion - Hourly contractor for wiki housekeeping

johanna curiel curiel johanna.curiel at owasp.org
Thu Aug 6 23:27:55 UTC 2015


Hi Jim

I will continue the discussion at the wiki editors list

regards

Johanna

On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 6:07 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:

> You don't have to do the work per se, but if you run into something old
> and valuable and care to shoot me an email, I'll take care of it with the
> editors team. Deleting obvious stuff that needs to go - well go for it -
> this is a wiki. Another option is to just redirect old pages to the project
> main page like so.
>
> #redirect [[page]]
>
> 1) If the old pages should be deleted, if possible we prefer to redirect
> them so we do not lose search engine pointers to OWASP.
> 2) If old pages are good content that is old, we prefer to archive that
> content.
> 3) If pages are good but not up to date, we prefer to label them as
> "needing fixing" in some way.
> 4) If they are really just "junk" pages with no value and no search links,
> permanent delete sounds very reasonable.
>
> I checked out
> http://www.volunteerpower.com/articles/motivate.asp
> and it looks very compelling!
>
> I do not want to delay any of your efforts - if there is a way the editors
> team and lend support let me know.
>
> Aloha Johanna,
> Jim
>
>
>
> On 8/6/15 11:15 AM, johanna curiel curiel wrote:
>
> Hi Jim
>
> Volunteering for these tasks is quite a lot of work apart from being very
> boring and little rewarding and I understand why we don't have 'brave'
> souls for this.
>
> The board is considering to pay someone(or even more than 1 person) but I
> think you should also consider to create a program to provide perks or
> bounties to volunteer's work that is actually a lot of work or tedious like
> this? Look around how other communities does this .
> Some ideas here:
> http://www.volunteerpower.com/articles/motivate.asp
>
> I would like to help but go and label pages is way too much and I think
> for other members that most of the time work full time (apart from being a
> tedious and boring task)
>
> Deleting is faster and easier for me. I understand if you do not want to
> provide us admin rights but I cannot go and sit labelling in the wiki code
> pages , way too much work.
>
> regards
>
> Johanna
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Jim Manico <jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>
>> Johanna,
>>
>> What we have done so far is clean up the most popular pages that return
>> from Google search results to clean up our many "front doors". I have
>> plenty of personal scripts and tools to help this process as well. Lets
>> talk more offline around how we can help your team clean up the many
>> project pages.
>>
>> A past process had project pages split into a dozen or more small files
>> which ended up being confusing and not really helpful for most. I think
>> many of these need to be cleaned up or removed...
>>
>> --
>> Jim Manico
>> Global Board Member
>> OWASP Foundation
>> https://www.owasp.org
>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>
>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 8:19 AM, johanna curiel curiel <
>> johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jim
>>
>> Thanks for clarifying.
>> Do we have a process that is clear for everyone ? Like a wiki page of the
>> 'wiki editors' with instructions? ;-)
>>
>> I think that it was not clear for us the activity of the Wiki editors.
>>
>> The project inventory needs a huge clean up , especially from those empty
>> wiki project pages ;-)
>> When you are so far for the contractor part, let us know so we can
>> specify/label those pages we want delete actions on since we are no admins,
>> although it's a lot of work go one by one editing and labelling information.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Johanna
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Jim Manico < <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>> jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Johanna,
>>>
>>> I can help here. If you want yo change that page flag just let me know.
>>> You can also join
>>> <https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors>
>>> https://lists.owasp.org/mailman/listinfo/owasp-wiki-editors and talk to
>>> the editor group about any suggested changes....
>>>
>>> Aloha!
>>> --
>>> Jim Manico
>>> Global Board Member
>>> OWASP Foundation
>>> https://www.owasp.org
>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>
>>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 3:56 AM, johanna curiel curiel <
>>> <johanna.curiel at owasp.org>johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> One of those FIXME is about WebScarab which I do not agree
>>>
>>> WebScarab is still in use and should not be deleted. I would like to
>>> classify that content as 'Low Activity' or Inactive, especially for
>>> valuable content projects but not actively maintained.
>>>
>>> @Noreen: I can create categories but I cannot delete wiki pages that
>>> have been created. You must be an admin:
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_delete_a_page>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_delete_a_page
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Johanna
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Noreen Whysel <
>>> <noreen.whysel at owasp.org>noreen.whysel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Johanna,
>>>>
>>>> Have you tried creating a new category? Type
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:new-category-name>
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:new-category-name and see if
>>>> it lets you edit the new category page. BTW, the wiki seems to be extremely
>>>> slow today.
>>>>
>>>> Are you able to view the Special Pages for Categories? If not you may
>>>> not have a high enough user setting. It doesn't seem that all the
>>>> categories are protected pages, but I am not sure.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Special:Categories>
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Special:Categories
>>>>
>>>> There are also category tracking functions built into Mediawiki. None
>>>> of the pages appear to be populated, which could just mean there are no
>>>> pages using these tags or having the tracked problems.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Special:TrackingCategories>
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Special:TrackingCategories
>>>>
>>>> Timo, There is a FIXME category tag for FIXME/delete and another for
>>>> candidate for deletion that I believe people had been using to recommend
>>>> pages to delete. You can see all the FIXME categories on the Category:FIXME
>>>> page. I think Matt Tesauro is the only person who has deletion rights, but
>>>> he may know if there are others.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME>
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME/delete>
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME/delete
>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:CandidateForDeletion>
>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:CandidateForDeletion
>>>>
>>>> Noreen Whysel
>>>> Community Manager
>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Timo Goosen < <timo.goosen at owasp.org>
>>>> timo.goosen at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If I had ability to delete useless pages off the wiki, then a
>>>>> significant cleanup would be done from my side.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would also like to hear answers to Johanna's questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>> Timo
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 2:55 PM, johanna curiel curiel <
>>>>> <johanna.curiel at owasp.org>johanna.curiel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Board
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding your action to hire a contractor and a technical editor to
>>>>>> clean up the wiki
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you know many of the pages are indeed project pages
>>>>>> I have asked multiple times access to clean up the category section
>>>>>> which I do not have access to.But no anwer has been provided clearly on how
>>>>>> to do this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will this potential contractor(s) handle content related to wiki
>>>>>> pages projects?
>>>>>> Have you though about who will manage these actions , since in my
>>>>>> opinion,  an external party will not know which content to clean and which
>>>>>> not?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to hear your thoughts about this and if you have
>>>>>> consider the Project task force team to get involved in this action
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My biggest concern is that you hire someone that has no idea about
>>>>>> the content, So how will this person be able to clean up something properly
>>>>>> or not? And to create relevant content?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Johanna
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Jim Manico < <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>>>>>> jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/>https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 5, 2015, at 7:09 AM, Matt Konda < <matt.konda at owasp.org>
>>>>>>> matt.konda at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Should we aim bigger and make this part of a contract tech writer's
>>>>>>> responsibilities?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matt Konda
>>>>>>> @mkonda
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 5, 2015, at 4:32 AM, Fabio Cerullo < <fcerullo at owasp.org>
>>>>>>> fcerullo at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I support the idea on getting some professional help for the wiki.
>>>>>>> Maybe we could allocate a small budget to start with?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it possible to come up with a list of pages that need maintenance
>>>>>>> based on the Wiki categorisation below?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fabio Cerullo
>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org>https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015 <https://2015.appsecusa.org> in
>>>>>>> San Francisco!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4 Aug 2015, at 19:34, Jim Manico < <jim.manico at owasp.org>
>>>>>>> jim.manico at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > But, we need a bit more focus. Let's pay a few bucks and just get
>>>>>>> some dedicated time on it for awhile.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +1 I think this is an important idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jim Manico
>>>>>>> Global Board Member
>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/>https://www.owasp.org
>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 4, 2015, at 7:52 AM, Michael Coates <
>>>>>>> <michael.coates at owasp.org>michael.coates at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All great thing and I'd want to use the systems we have in place for
>>>>>>> sure. My comment/idea is that we've tried to do this from a volunteer angle
>>>>>>> for many years. Loe their effort and what they've done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, we need a bit more focus. Let's pay a few bucks and just get
>>>>>>> some dedicated time on it for awhile.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Michael Coates | @_mwc
>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=_mwc>
>>>>>>> OWASP Global Board
>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015 in San Francisco!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Noreen Whysel OWASP <
>>>>>>> <noreen.whysel at owasp.org>noreen.whysel at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is a category called FIXME that the wiki editing project uses
>>>>>>>> to tag content that have errors. I do not know how active that team is at
>>>>>>>> the moment but we can use these tags to label pages with errors. It would
>>>>>>>> be good to start with labeling tools we already have in place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would actually be happy to run an editathon at AppSecUSA as part
>>>>>>>> of my chapter leader workshop. I was hoping to find members of the wiki
>>>>>>>> editing team to help out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME>
>>>>>>>> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:FIXME
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Noreen Whysel
>>>>>>>> Community Manager
>>>>>>>> OWASP Foundation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 4, 2015, at 1:26 PM, Michael Coates <
>>>>>>>> <michael.coates at owasp.org>michael.coates at owasp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Board,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Added as a board meeting topic (if necessary). Circulating for
>>>>>>>> comment via email.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Try as we might, we just haven't had enough volunteer focus on wiki
>>>>>>>> upkeep. Wouldn't it be great to part with a few hundred dollars a month and
>>>>>>>> have a wiki that is organized with tagging that indicates "hot content" or
>>>>>>>> content that needs updating? That plus normal clean up of dead links,
>>>>>>>> duplicate page flagging etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a minuscule amount of funds towards the overall budget and
>>>>>>>> would sure help with the delivery of information to the world. Would also
>>>>>>>> help with volunteer engagement since they'd know what content needs
>>>>>>>> attention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Michael Coates | @_mwc
>>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=_mwc>
>>>>>>>> OWASP Global Board
>>>>>>>> Join me at AppSecUSA <http://appsecusa.org/> 2015 in San Francisco!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>
>
> --
> Jim Manico
> Global Board Member
> OWASP Foundationhttps://www.owasp.org
> Join me at AppSecUSA 2015!
>
>
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